Ableton Forum

Hey guys

Could someone explain a bit more detailed about modular DJ setups? Particularly what I'm interested to know is:

- what is the benefit of modular setup over a standard 4 channel DJ controller?
- what is the role of external mixer in the setup? Should it be a 2 or 4 channel mixer?
- what setup can you recommend? I'm just starting to DJ but I want to invest into something which would also serve my needs when I become more advanced. For now I only have KA6 interface.
- Behringer, NI, Akai and Novation controllers all can be used as parts of modular setups, right? What is it that I need to consider before choosing a brand?

Thanks!

It's the difference between DJing and Performing for the most part.

Different people will add different controllers when they feel the need to. Trying to solve your performance requirements before you have an idea is like trying to write a novel ready for release when you don't have a concept of the story yet.

What is the target audience/venue/event? If you are playing clubs/festivals where you have a set time to play you would possibly design a "setlist" which you could then design a performance based around a selection of songs and loops allowing you to design how these would be played, effects and performance methods. This is where your controllers and software selection would come in.

If you are playing more freestyle, taking requests and basically controlling the music/flow of an event the above is almost a waste of time since if you set yourself up at a wedding for instance with a streamlined 60 minute set you have refined, it would be a bitch if people are switching off within 5 minutes and you aren't prepared to switch up the game. Nothing worse than watching a "DJ" in the zone with all his fancy buttons and lights not even paying attention to the crowd thinking he's rocking it.

External mixers are almost exclusively a must if you are doing your own events. Relying purely on software and attached audio interfaces is asking for trouble. I have had crashes during a performance and if you have a floor of people and have a crash to either silence or worse, a locked audio interface that has a stuck audio buffer hammering your speakers into the crowd, even a system that can boot in 20 seconds will feel like hours with nothing playing and people starting to point and laugh at you. Having an external mixer with a line connected to an emergency player that you can kick in at any moment will save your night. Always have something pretty genre neutral.

Some controllers for dedicated DJ software (serato, Tractor etc) combine hardware mixers, deck control and performance features in a single package. I use Serato and NS7III which offers a lot of performance abilities with the spinning platters and loop/cue functions and once you get on those things and start making a few cuts it makes you look pretty pro (even with basic baby scratch moves) but people notice that stuff way more than a perfect chopped and cut set of samples played live with a grid controller... Playing and tweaking controllers doesn't really get people excited. I replace using controllers with mixing lighting so I set my songs up at least 5-10 tracks in advance and perform my DMX lighting to drive the mood exactly to the sound... When I want a lazy break I just hit a chase.

I started 18 years ago with 1 CD player, 2 tape players and a hand built DJ mixer recycled from a couple of old stereo systems and Atari game paddles and pulled off a couple of new years parties, blue light discos for the school and dozens of back yard parties by the time I was 17. Not a computer or controller in sight and not a single disappointing party. I learned a lot about watching different aged crowds react to different styles of songs at different points of the night. Watching things like how much people are drinking, what the ages are, are these people that like to singalong or dance, knowing songs that would get women out on the floor (because Men only get out there when they are hammered mostly) That's more important than the gear you use for performing and only learnable by doing (which is why I have done so many free/heavily discounted gigs over the years).

In terms of what to purchase first, that's not simple to answer. I have 2 completely different setups for doing different things. I have my studio setup with Push/Launchpad/Keyboards and Live. I then have my DJ setup with Serato, NS7III and my audio/lighting rigs. I have thought about integrating Live for some performance stuff but I manage to get things done and have a lot of fun with your "classic" 2 turntable and mixer setup (tho be that a digital version now).

Using Serato/Tractor and a simple controller allows you to get started mixing, beat matching, looping, cutting and some effects straight away without any real time to setup or learn. You just need a library of music to start with. Using a heap of controllers might look like fun but IMO is a trap for beginners because without some working knowledge you need to spend a lot of time learning the gear, learning how to use it to perform and then building your sets and content because it's not straight forward to just load a song and play it. I'd say look at the more classic DJ stuff first then look at how controller based setups can work.

jestermgee wrote:It's the difference between DJing and Performing for the most part.

Different people will add different controllers when they feel the need to. Trying to solve your performance requirements before you have an idea is like trying to write a novel ready for release when you don't have a concept of the story yet.

What is the target audience/venue/event? If you are playing clubs/festivals where you have a set time to play you would possibly design a "setlist" which you could then design a performance based around a selection of songs and loops allowing you to design how these would be played, effects and performance methods. This is where your controllers and software selection would come in.

If you are playing more freestyle, taking requests and basically controlling the music/flow of an event the above is almost a waste of time since if you set yourself up at a wedding for instance with a streamlined 60 minute set you have refined, it would be a bitch if people are switching off within 5 minutes and you aren't prepared to switch up the game. Nothing worse than watching a "DJ" in the zone with all his fancy buttons and lights not even paying attention to the crowd thinking he's rocking it.

External mixers are almost exclusively a must if you are doing your own events. Relying purely on software and attached audio interfaces is asking for trouble. I have had crashes during a performance and if you have a floor of people and have a crash to either silence or worse, a locked audio interface that has a stuck audio buffer hammering your speakers into the crowd, even a system that can boot in 20 seconds will feel like hours with nothing playing and people starting to point and laugh at you. Having an external mixer with a line connected to an emergency player that you can kick in at any moment will save your night. Always have something pretty genre neutral.

Some controllers for dedicated DJ software (serato, Tractor etc) combine hardware mixers, deck control and performance features in a single package. I use Serato and NS7III which offers a lot of performance abilities with the spinning platters and loop/cue functions and once you get on those things and start making a few cuts it makes you look pretty pro (even with basic baby scratch moves) but people notice that stuff way more than a perfect chopped and cut set of samples played live with a grid controller... Playing and tweaking controllers doesn't really get people excited. I replace using controllers with mixing lighting so I set my songs up at least 5-10 tracks in advance and perform my DMX lighting to drive the mood exactly to the sound... When I want a lazy break I just hit a chase.

I started 18 years ago with 1 CD player, 2 tape players and a hand built DJ mixer recycled from a couple of old stereo systems and Atari game paddles and pulled off a couple of new years parties, blue light discos for the school and dozens of back yard parties by the time I was 17. Not a computer or controller in sight and not a single disappointing party. I learned a lot about watching different aged crowds react to different styles of songs at different points of the night. Watching things like how much people are drinking, what the ages are, are these people that like to singalong or dance, knowing songs that would get women out on the floor (because Men only get out there when they are hammered mostly) That's more important than the gear you use for performing and only learnable by doing (which is why I have done so many free/heavily discounted gigs over the years).

In terms of what to purchase first, that's not simple to answer. I have 2 completely different setups for doing different things. I have my studio setup with Push/Launchpad/Keyboards and Live. I then have my DJ setup with Serato, NS7III and my audio/lighting rigs. I have thought about integrating Live for some performance stuff but I manage to get things done and have a lot of fun with your "classic" 2 turntable and mixer setup (tho be that a digital version now).

Using Serato/Tractor and a simple controller allows you to get started mixing, beat matching, looping, cutting and some effects straight away without any real time to setup or learn. You just need a library of music to start with. Using a heap of controllers might look like fun but IMO is a trap for beginners because without some working knowledge you need to spend a lot of time learning the gear, learning how to use it to perform and then building your sets and content because it's not straight forward to just load a song and play it. I'd say look at the more classic DJ stuff first then look at how controller based setups can work.

So I decided on two alternatives: if I go with Ableton my setup will be KA6, Numark M6 4 channel mixer, Novation launchpad and Novation Launch control and if I go with Traktor, then my setup will be A6, Numark M6 4 channel mixer and probably X1. Does this setup makes sense? I am struggling to understand though how the connections will be made. For example in case with Ableton, if M6 will be connected to the output channels of KA6 and Novation controllers to laptop USb slots, how can I reroute the signal from controllers to M6 so that I can mix and cue them from M6 rather than from the software itself? Can I route several channels from software through M6's single channel? I assume the signal from 1 and 2 channels (imitation of A and B decks on the traditional DJ software) can be connected to M6 channels without issues?

What exactly does the Numark M6 do? Is it an interface also?? What is the USB on it for?

No, it doesn't have a built in audio interface. It's an external mixer to have a better output quality and ensure a more club friendly setup. Well at least what people on forums and more advanceddjs/producers do, they always use external mixers.

delayed_flight wrote:No, it doesn't have a built in audio interface. It's an external mixer to have a better output quality and ensure a more club friendly setup. Well at least what people on forums and more advanceddjs/producers do, they always use external mixers.

... and to ensure a more ssafe setup if some of the controllers crashes

A pretty good explanation I bumped into in one of the NI forum threads:

When using the Internal Mixer, you assign 1 stereo pair of outputs to the main out. Any mixing you do in Traktor's multiple decks must be merged (or summed) in real time, turned into a stream, sent out the USB/Firewire port to your sound device, hits the Digital to Analog Converter (DAC) and sent to the Main Out. All this is done in the digital domain which has a finite headroom. My dabbling in the production world has taught me that digital combining of tracks can be a fine art.

When using External mode, each deck can be assigned to a different output on your sound card/device (depending on how many outputs you have). In this situation all the software has to do is send an assigned deck to it's dedicated output. This creates multiple streams, each with it's own headroom, giving (potentially) higher fidelity. Obviously, the quality of the external mixer can color the sound as well.

Another benefit of an External Mixer is it should also decrease any latency the system exhibits since the CPU doesn't have to worry about anything but sending the streams out to the sound card/device.

Would any of this really matter if I was just bumping my bedroom or a house party? Probably not. But if I was dropping some tracks on a serious club sound system: Absolutely.