Ableton Forum

Just having a think about the way Ive set my channel levels. Ive always did it so that the channel fader is always at 0db gain position, coming from a dj background.

1. Audio tracks - Ill use the sample volume slider in the clip area, (next to transpose) and set it so audio is at the desired level when the ableton mixer slider for channel is at 0db.

2. Drum racks - Same with drum racks. Ill keep all mixer faders at 0db and adjust the level using the simpler volume.

3. Synths/ instruments - Again ableton mixer is at 0db and Ill set my volume using the synths master output/gain knob.


Am I wrong in doing this, like for example should I send a "fuller" signal from synth into mixer bus channel and turn down abletons mixer?. Does this approach give you better resolution/bit depth of sound. Same with audio clips say, leave them louder in clip area and mix them down using the mixer??

Or does it not really matter in the digital world where the gain is turned down (or up).

grandpa sekno wrote:Just having a think about the way Ive set my channel levels. Ive always did it so that the channel fader is always at 0db gain position, coming from a dj background.

1. Audio tracks - Ill use the sample volume slider in the clip area, (next to transpose) and set it so audio is at the desired level when the ableton mixer slider for channel is at 0db.

2. Drum racks - Same with drum racks. Ill keep all mixer faders at 0db and adjust the level using the simpler volume.

3. Synths/ instruments - Again ableton mixer is at 0db and Ill set my volume using the synths master output/gain knob.


Am I wrong in doing this, like for example should I send a "fuller" signal from synth into mixer bus channel and turn down abletons mixer?. Does this approach give you better resolution/bit depth of sound. Same with audio clips say, leave them louder in clip area and mix them down using the mixer??

Or does it not really matter in the digital world where the gain is turned down (or up).

Levels shouldn't concern anyone writing a new song very much. Getting down ideas and experiment is typically urgent business. When you record something, not clipping coming in and feeding an instrumentalist/singer a good monitor mix to get the best performance are probably the most important aspects.

What should concern someone doing a mixdown are

• Loudness syndrome, which is when you process the signal you may take an average louder signal as being "better".
  
  Some Solutions --> Gain Staging and/or tools like HOFA 4U+ BlindTest
• Levels going into certain audio effects processors that are affected by volume input, like saturation, distortion, compression or emulation of older studio gear where levels affect actual behaviour.
  Solution --> Gain Staging, turning down before going in at least.
• Clipping anywhere on the signal path
  Solution --> Gain Staging
• Over-compression and Over-limiting, where you crush the life out of a part gaining very little more than pure volume.
  Solution --> Less ratios and more natural response, Gain Staging
• Too radical EQ curves in order to cut trough the mix, making sounds harsh
  Solution --> Gain Staging and recalibrating your perception with breaks.
• Too kicking short transients, that may not even register with you until you've done the mixdown.
  Solution --> Gain Staging and turning down the level of transients.

As for specific levels I go for kick and bass hitting about -18dBFS RMS when playing together at my main master, other tracks set to match that. I adjust output or use Utility or Freeg. Faders are at -6dB, but I might change that to -3, busses start at 0dB, Main Buss and Master at 0dB, returns at -6dB. Return levels are set by ear, typically with compression as last (Or only) stage.

I'd say you're about right. I do think it's good to try different levels and multiple mixdowns. That's a good way to learn by practicing.

IMVHO, at the end of the day there's really no difference from a quality perspective using the channel faders versus using the volume controls on the instruments/effects on those channels. So a lot of it really comes down to what makes things easier for you while doing the actual mixing. In a DAW environment the only thing you need to watch is peak level in terms of causing issues, work at least at 24bit and leave yourself some headroom and the rest comes down to personal preference.

Personally I find it easier to do a mixdown with the channel faders since I can easily see and adjust levels for everything at a glance.

You use sample volume fader or the instrument volume for gain staging and the fader to adjust relative volume among tracks.

I highly recommed the following course on gain staging:

https://ask.audio/academy?nleloc=course ... 183fmfc321

Or does it not really matter in the digital world where the gain is turned down (or up).

Focus on that. The only thing that you should pay attention to initially is if your instrument output starts to clip or the master starts to clip (channels themselves can drive into the red without issue). Anything else in the middle can be wherever you like it and unless you are setting initial levels such as when DJing to get your audio chain calibrated, you don't need to have everything set at unity 0db... Faders are designed to adjust signal.

Thought as much.....ill just continue using my mixer channels at 0db and set input to channel accordingly.

Thanks for input

I use Utility on tracks that need large volume adjustments so the faders stay between -12 and 0. Since I also use Utility to narrow overly wide stereo tracks, it's a simple solution.