The future of Live - should we worry? (video)

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The "it's for beats mentality" is Ableton's. Just look at their promo materials. Look at the recent changes to simpler. Everything is moving toward "beatmaking" or sampling off a record. Sure, you might be doing classical on push, and I might do surf polkas, but the fact remains they are not Ableton's focus. Look at their promos. Live is selling to that huge market segment the "bedroom producer" the person who wants to make Mad Beatz with LoopPacks and will pay for the convenience. The whole thing is then covered with an Instagram sheen. Just look at the company direction now.

Don't know bro, maybe because I see those videos as marketing which main goal is to sell stuff not serious aesthetic proposal by the company. I think anyone with a bit of imagination knows you can do much more.

I am giving Live lessons to two guys, one makes blues and the other is a classical composer, both don't care about beats but they enjoy using the program.

But Again, yes Live is not the best tool for orchestral for many reasons, and I don't think the company can make a products which makes the whole spectrum of music makers happy, there has to be some compromises.

[Angstrom]

Yes, the videos are to sell stuff. They are designed to appeal to their core market, hence the content and styling.

My point is: that's Ableton's primary market. The "beat maker " in fact, the Ableton channel only features beatmaking videos with guitars etc only featuring as set dressing behind a person sampling breaks. Instagram scenery.

Now we all agree that we CAN make whatever music we like with it, I agree - because I make music which is not Techno or HipHop, I dont use LoopPacks, and I don't ever slice vinyl beats to a Simpler. I do record guitars, I do make "different" music than Ableton's core target market but my music, workflow, and needs are not what they intend or design their FOR. Their core market is EDM and HipHop user, thats why the promo looks the way it does. Everyone else is just a bonus for them

When Ableton make a new version will they aim to serve the 15% of users who need comping, or serve the 80% of users who pay for mad beatz ? I know what I'd do! LoopPackz for everyone!!

I can play The Ramones on a mandolin, I can play acid house on a Euphonium. It's perfectly possible.

[Stromkraft]

What do you suggest?

Well, this is a totally unacceptable situation, which I believe I've said previously in one of the dedicated threads for this 4k issue. I'm not sure on how simple it would be for Ableton to support a particular technical solution or how other software makers cope with similar problems. It would seem unlikely that this only affect Live. As I see it this problem should be top priority.

If viable, make your machine a Hackintosh. This may not work for you, because of other licensing and platform-dependent software, but it could be a solution in some cases if the hardware can be made to run macOS (I believe that very seldom are laptops viable contenders).

Alternatively, there ought to be some resolution measure to make. Virtual resolutions have been with us since the late nighties. Surely there are some solution on the level just above the OS? I haven't experienced 4k issues in Windows 10 myself. Are you sure you have exhausted all possibilities outside of Live? Surely other apps must also have this issue sometimes?

I'm thinking of how games can change resolution when starting up for instance or when showing video in specific resolution. This might not look good enough in this case because of the technical choices of the Ableton development team.

How does other DAWs cope with this problem I wonder?

[[jur]]

I can play The Ramones on a mandolin

Com'on, even the Ramones can't play their own tunes!

[studiojohnny]

Should we be concerned? I mean, we've all seen the huge Push focus lately, but haven't we been hoping that Ableton would eventually cater to users that have other needs?

Yes. And yes.

..one has to start wondering if we've been wasting our time...

Indeed.

Our future is going to be integrating with our hardware and focusing more on live performance.

Wellp. That sums it all up. I remember having this moment where I realized Apple was giving up on pro users of Final Cut Pro and deciding to switch to Adobe Premiere. That was 8 years ago. Still using Premiere. This is like that moment except for Ableton. I suppose they're just trying to focus on the one aspect of their DAW that differentiates them in the market, which I understand, but it makes me sad because that's not me. I just want a great studio DAW.

[Machinesworking]

I can play The Ramones on a mandolin

Com'on, even the Ramones can't play their own tunes!

Making fun of the dead? tsk tsk!

[Stefan Jantschek]

Well, this is a totally unacceptable situation, which I believe I've said previously in one of the dedicated threads for this 4k issue. I'm not sure on how simple it would be for Ableton to support a particular technical solution or how other software makers cope with similar problems.

Guess it´s a biggie, as L9 seems to use almost the same GUI since version 1.
Color changes not mentioned.
No issues with other software here, even my freeware mail client is precisely sharp and clear.

If viable, make your machine a Hackintosh.

Definitely no.
My system works flawless in other aspects.
No crashes, minimum latency, well selected VSTI´s.
I shure don´t open a building site in hope to get rid of another.

Alternatively, there ought to be some resolution measure to make. Virtual resolutions have been with us since the late nighties. Surely there are some solution on the level just above the OS? I haven't experienced 4k issues in Windows 10 myself. Are you sure you have exhausted all possibilities outside of Live?

Tried them all.
Even worked with Windows 10 magnifying glass for a while.
Makes you nuts.
No solution possible.

How does other DAWs cope with this problem I wonder?

That´s what i was asking in this thread already.
I don´t know.
Jumped from Cubase to Logic ca. 1998 and from Logic to Ableton when Emagic decided to quit WIN support.

I said to Abes, no worry, i am patient.
Keep on developing your great software.
That was march 2015...

[Stefan Jantschek]

Our future is going to be integrating with our hardware and focusing more on live performance.

That scares me.
I have Push.
I love Push.

But Live XX as an OS for a "Beat Machine"?

"We at Porsche are indeed proud to present you the innovative horse drawn buggy..."

[Stromkraft]

Our future is going to be integrating with our hardware and focusing more on live performance.

Wellp. That sums it all up. I remember having this moment where I realized Apple was giving up on pro users of Final Cut Pro and deciding to switch to Adobe Premiere. That was 8 years ago. Still using Premiere. This is like that moment except for Ableton. I suppose they're just trying to focus on the one aspect of their DAW that differentiates them in the market, which I understand, but it makes me sad because that's not me. I just want a great studio DAW.

Well, we cant have live performances in the studios. That's just unseemly.

[Stromkraft]

I have Push.
I love Push.

But Live XX as an OS for a "Beat Machine"?

How is Push merely that? I use (the original) Push for everything except fader rides.

[Stromkraft]

How does other DAWs cope with this problem I wonder?

That´s what i was asking in this thread already.
I don´t know.

Well, Ableton just need to fix this pronto!

[Stefan Jantschek]

Well, Ableton just need to fix this pronto!

Or at least give a hint if and when.

It´s confusion and disappointment that started this thread.
And killed my patience.
Communication error first!

[Stefan Jantschek]

How is Push merely that?

We both know it´s certainly not.
So i definitely don´t like to get there in the future.
It is Live and Push that makes it awesome.
Why to put more and more weight in one direction?
What sense does it e.g. make to move more and more from a high res notebook screen
to Push´s screen?
No sense.
Just stupid efforts to work around limitations that my notebook screen doesn´t have.
No (visible) notebooks on stage?
Fashion idiotism.
Use the best options of both.
My experience.
That works best.

[hyperscientist]

Ableton is falling a bit behind times with Live. Progress just isn't there. And it's not niche things that are missing only.

Push is awesome, Link was important too. Innovation is still there. Who knows, maybe the next step is improving MIDI capabilities…? MPE and things described in original post's video… It would even be awesome for "beat makers". Sadly, no one will ever know until it is released unfortunately.

It is clear that Ableton's cardinal sin is lack of communication. Ableton is dead quiet towards customers. Once in a while they do admit that and claim they will try harder, but that doesn't mean a thing - I haven't noticed ANY change in last 2 years or so.

Ableton, U-he, Xfer, Spitfire, ROLI, SoundToys, Madrona Labs, TAL, Bitwig, even MOOG, Genelec, Audient, Kavai, Roland, Shure, Elektron… This is a list of companies I bought audio products from and of all these companies it's only Ableton, Roland and Shure that don't talk to customers at all. ROLI is also a bit weird as they don't like to talk in public, but privately with emails they are some of the coolest people of them all.

Ableton? 2/10 for efforts, despite few cool & helpful mods here on this forum who are obviously forbidden to do anything but to support users with technical problems.

[Stefan Jantschek]

It is clear that Ableton's cardinal sin is lack of communication.

Exactly.

Once in a while they do admit that and claim they will try harder...

Where?
When?

There´s not even a reason for it said.
Silence about silence.
I keep on trying to understand.
But still speculations after all.
And more semi-idols for the bedroom producers on their website. (cynical mode off)