Ableton Forum

These are 2 things I really want to learn in detail, my tracks are sounding nice but i know i can add way more depth and space by using them anyone know of any super good tutorials on them?

antic604 wrote:

prestondj wrote:These are 2 things I really want to learn in detail, my tracks are sounding nice but i know i can add way more depth and space by using them anyone know of any super good tutorials on them?

Simple google search for "Ableton Live automation" will give you several YouTube videos on how to *technically* do that.

It's also pretty extensively covered in the manual (https://www.ableton.com/en/manual/autom ... envelopes/)

However, to achieve "more depth and space" in your music by using automation you first need to understand how the synths/instruments and effects work, in particular what impact their parameters have to the sound they produce. Only then it makes sense to try automating those parameters, to e.g. accentuate transitions, build tension, place the sound in the mix, etc. Listen to your favourite music genre and try to understand when & how automation is used by paying attention to how sounds develop, how their textures are changing, how they're placed and moved around the space, etc. Then try to find out which parameters are responsible for the effects you're hearing. That's the most difficult part. Twisting the knobs and recording it or drawing the envelopes with mouse is trivial, but it's an art to make the result interesting

Thanks brother that's a really good answer! If used correctly it will take your productions next level! I wouldn't mind eventually being able to record them live with a device would be sick, almost like djing but for your track!

prestondj wrote:I wouldn't mind eventually being able to record them live with a device would be sick, almost like djing but for your track!

It's an interesting workflow (I do this), but it's quite different from DJing.
Composing on the fly is much more like improv, than simply creatively replaying finished work like a DJ does.

Compositional arrangement and timing become big issues, that a DJ for the most part doesn't have to concern himself with (because the track he plays takes care of that).

On the upside though, once you have developed a great tool to do it (most out of the box implementations won't suffice) and have learned to compose on the fly (it's hard and requires lots of practice), you will be a really great live artist as well.

Good luck on your path

TomKern wrote:

prestondj wrote:I wouldn't mind eventually being able to record them live with a device would be sick, almost like djing but for your track!

It's an interesting workflow (I do this), but it's quite different from DJing.
Composing on the fly is much more like improv, than simply creatively replaying finished work like a DJ does.

Compositional arrangement and timing become big issues, that a DJ for the most part doesn't have to concern himself with (because the track he plays takes care of that).

On the upside though, once you have developed a great tool to do it (most out of the box implementations won't suffice) and have learned to compose on the fly (it's hard and requires lots of practice), you will be a really great live artist as well.

Good luck on your path

Yeah exactly what do you think about the APC 40 as a device for this? Or even better what about mapping a DJM? TO filters, phasers etc. etc.

Thats the goal really being able to compose on the fly and as well as build a live set to make you stand tall above the other DJ's! So glad some people in here catch my drift!

I don't think any commercial controller implementation by itself will suffice. But then I might be biased since I spent the last 3 years developing just such an instrument.

The main question you need to answer for yourself is, what exactly do you mean by composing live?!
What elements do you start with: longish phrases? Short loops? One shots?
How many elements do you treat separately? How many different ways to affect the sounds, rhythms, melodies do you want? Do you want enough possibilities to diverge from your plan to truly improvise? Etc, etc.

If you are fine with just assembling longish phrases, then yeah that is pretty close to DJing (though still way more complex) and I could possibly picture something like the APC 40 being a rudimentary starting point.

But the issue with store bought solutions in a live situation is always that you will have to adapt your instrument to what the supplier deemed a good script layout. So in a way you are pretty boxed in. Another problem with those solutions, (though it's not as bad with the APC 40, as with Push for instance) is having different modes you switch between. This takes away a lot of the immediacy of playing live so I would avoid it as much as possible.

I for instance, in my own solution, have usually rather added more controllers, than to have to switch modes. This way I always have everything that's needed right in front of me at any given moment.
FYI, I use five different controllers atm. (none with the supplied scripts). An APC Mini, an A&E K2, a Launchpad Pro (for the 64 pressure sensitive pads), a Launchpad S (using parts of the LPC2 script from NativeControl) and a self build controller that has two rows of 9 pot knobs each and also harbors 16 LEDs that I use as a time indicator.

But yeah for longish phrases an APC 40 could be a starting point, but for any of the more detailed approaches you will need a lot more controller real estate and it is a long (if rewarding) process to really bring all these control elements together in a way that gives you the power to produce live.

I don't think without either learning how to write your own scripts (the most difficult option), learn how to develop, or at least integrate M4L devices, or finally my preferred option a combination of ClyphX and Bomes MT (it's the easiest to learn IMO) you won't get a comprehensive solution.