Ableton Forum

This should be stunning...
There is now actual proof that (according to this young bloke) music is sliding
downwards in quality since the 60's (and you thought it was vynil -> digital!)

THIS IS LONG... but if you're a producer (Musican) or love someone who is,
PLEASE watch this video... goes into the negatives of various compression techniques
even! And then some!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oVME_l4IwII

In another topic, (possible multiple compressors on potentially crossed sidechains)
a lively discussion ensued! Wasn't the first time, either. THEN I got my Ableton
newsletter, just after another typically verbose reply...
https://www.ableton.com/en/blog/sidecha ... on-part-1/

and I dropped that bomb there too... I just can't wait for this! omg...
My Neurologist is right. I'm an anarchist!

G Pops
?

"Timbre diversity has dropped"
What a joke. Just think about synthesis technics only achievable digitally/with computers.
Bieber? Katy Perry? This guy is referring to "Pop" music. Easy to conclude such things, even "scientifically" with such a narrow spectrum.
And common, even though I'm totally not into dance/pop music I can't deny that Spears' "Toxic" is a masterpiece.

Mind blowing music is released every day by over talented people. It would be useless to start naming any of them, it'll take forever and would never stop.

Anyway, I think you've started a debate here.
Hopefully everyone will keep cool!

I think it's a funny video. He is only addressing pop music and his points about compression, Max Martin and promotion in the music business are dead on.

Anybody interested in making a career of music should think about this stuff long and hard. Innovative, good music is always around, it's just usually on the fringes. The period from 1962 (the Beatles first recordings) to Napster (1999) was justan abberation that allowed a lot of great music make it into the mainstream.

Well, it isn't. Much music is great. It's a question of opening one's ears and getting out more. I'm not kidding.

[jur] wrote:<snip>
Anyway, I think you've started a debate here.
Hopefully everyone will keep cool!

Yup Jur, I did, and for a reason;
I believe that however strongly we believe in what we hold almost "sacred" that
unless you are willing to be open minded and debate what you hold true then one
is simply arrogant enough to believe he can't possibly BE wrong...

This is a mistake I've made many times in my life, admittedly, but (hopefully)
will not make again. I am a fish out of water;
@61y/o, I am trying to make it AGAIN in a music industry that has been SO
completely changed (up is down, black is white) from what "I knew" all
of my life, that it's hard for me to even imagine what people want, or
even whether I care...

Near the end of the '70s I was trying to kick-start a band and struggling
because "disco" was the craze (along with cocaine!) and something called
"Punk Rock" was messing with my head... I was into Progressive Rock,
(Yes, Kansas, Rush, Genesis, King Crimson, et. Al.) and I heard that one
of the hottest TV shows of the day, "Saturday Night Live" was going to have
the band that had the NUMBER ONE SONG in the nation... on that night.
I watched and almost cried as the B-52's played "Rock Lobster" PRAYING
that this was a SNL parody. A joke.

I almost sold all my equipment and took up golf!
Then someone reminded me that Yes filled up The Spectrum, Philadelphia's
largest venue THREE NIGHTS, the last two were a total surprise to promoters
no less...

The general Public (pop) is totally ignorant of what "good music" IS; They
know what they like and fuel the money machine that produces POP music.

But that's NOT "all there is."
Thank God!

G Pops

mikb wrote:Well, it isn't. Much music is great. It's a question of opening one's ears and getting out more. I'm not kidding.

If you are an adult.

The problem is a lot of Commercially popular stuff is aimed at younger audiences as they are the ones that will convince mum and dad to shell out for a concert or swag. And that is what that video focuses on and what a lot of people assume "music" is... based off US/UK pop charts which are full of repetitive, mathematically similar music to fit what youngsters have been conditioned to like.

Gone are the days where a young kid interested in music would hear their parents spin an album or play a cassette in the car. Where discovering music would often be through sharing it with friends on cassette or heading down the music store with friends to flip through albums. Gone are those days where you would excitedly bring an album home the day of its release and stick it on and listen to the whole thing.

People consume music way differently now and when a "new sound" is hot (more a sub genre of a sound or some slight variance) then companies can construct and pump out a number of artists to make use of that popularity. Then when that gets a little tired, introduce a new "edgy" artists to keep the attention.

Of course there is loads of great music out there. On the alternate channels (mine is Triple J in Australia) there is loads of much more real sounding music, bands and artists making great tunes. But yes, one has to look but as young kids that doesn't often go much further than youtube.

I gave my kids one of my old CD players and a tape player and boxes of music to dig through. They haven't even touched it but they know all the new "popular" songs that I don't because they pick it up from youtube mostly and that is not through lack of trying to educate them in music, it's almost out of my control.

Commercial music is not music, it's business.

jestermgee wrote:

mikb wrote:Well, it isn't. Much music is great. It's a question of opening one's ears and getting out more. I'm not kidding.

If you are an adult.

The problem is a lot of Commercially popular stuff is aimed at younger audiences as they are the ones that will convince mum and dad to shell out for a concert or swag. And that is what that video focuses on and what a lot of people assume "music" is... based off US/UK pop charts which are full of repetitive, mathematically similar music to fit what youngsters have been conditioned to like.

Gone are the days where a young kid interested in music would hear their parents spin an album or play a cassette in the car. Where discovering music would often be through sharing it with friends on cassette or heading down the music store with friends to flip through albums. Gone are those days where you would excitedly bring an album home the day of its release and stick it on and listen to the whole thing.

People consume music way differently now and when a "new sound" is hot (more a sub genre of a sound or some slight variance) then companies can construct and pump out a number of artists to make use of that popularity. Then when that gets a little tired, introduce a new "edgy" artists to keep the attention.

Of course there is loads of great music out there. On the alternate channels (mine is Triple J in Australia) there is loads of much more real sounding music, bands and artists making great tunes. But yes, one has to look but as young kids that doesn't often go much further than youtube.

I gave my kids one of my old CD players and a tape player and boxes of music to dig through. They haven't even touched it but they know all the new "popular" songs that I don't because they pick it up from youtube mostly and that is not through lack of trying to educate them in music, it's almost out of my control.

Commercial music is not music, it's business.

Wow! Jester!!! Right on the money from my perspective...
I guess I should have said "Nobody (or few) want good music anymore" because
as some have pointed out, THERE IS GOOD MUSIC OUT THERE... But it gets "no play."
I tried to get my families youngsterz to listen to my stuff, and within 15sec's
they were talking, laughing, and not paying attention, not listening.

But the "Cookie Cutter" musical "clutter" that's jammed on SoundCloud and most
other networks and music BUYING sites is literally JAMMED WITH JUNK.
I just let the stream play on SoundCloud when I first joined up and "felt" a
trend; Every third song (almost all hip-hop and rap) had some SUPER annoying
and absolutely repetitive (ALL through the song!) sound or vocalization
in it. Here's an example, makes me want to tear my hair out!;
https://soundcloud.com/sk85uperstar/giant-feat-trismuh
(Thank God it's SHORT!)
And this gets PLAY!!!! ???

Need more? THIS is popular as HELL on SoundCloud! 3938 plays in TWO DAYS!!!
https://soundcloud.com/verdetheblessed/immaculate

We have to find out how OLD people (over 30... ) are finding and buying new music!

G Pops

jestermgee wrote: I gave my kids one of my old CD players and a tape player and boxes of music to dig through. They haven't even touched it but they know all the new "popular" songs that I don't because they pick it up from youtube mostly and that is not through lack of trying to educate them in music, it's almost out of my control.

I bring them to quality festivals. Works nicely.

mikb wrote:

jestermgee wrote: I gave my kids one of my old CD players and a tape player and boxes of music to dig through. They haven't even touched it but they know all the new "popular" songs that I don't because they pick it up from youtube mostly and that is not through lack of trying to educate them in music, it's almost out of my control.

I bring them to quality festivals. Works nicely.

Yeah that isn't always a simple option for some, and not at $100 per ticket in Australia. And not when the city you live in (Adelaide) has maybe 2 festivals a year because it's too small to attract artists. The town I use to live in was 200km from the closest city so again, just getting to a festival would require my parents to save for 6 weeks to make the journey and pay for tickets. Not everyone has the advantages to just stroll down the road to a festival every week. I was 20 before I made my first concert (Pantera)!!!

mikb wrote:I bring them to quality festivals. Works nicely.

"Quality Festivals?"

I'm in the USA and we do have many sponsored events, instrument &
equipment mfgr's, software and hardware retailers and off/online
publication contests and many more inspired by local artists.

These are like both competitions but also opportunities for Artists
to get new listeners / fans because they're not just promoted to
Producers and Artists.

Are your Quality Festivals something like that?
Or am I way off base?

G Pops