Ableton Forum

So much I love about Push 2, %90 I would say 'if it ain't broke don't fix it'
Just seems to fall short for me for productivity with the lagginess.

So please, a revision with..

• Buttons that are nice to use in a fast workflow. They require too much force to press, it feels like pressing buttons in slow motion. The Push 1 pad buttons were so much button in practice in this regard. Just a nice quick tap did the job.
  
  A rethink of the display. A faster USB3 buss to get data to and from push faster perhaps? Or have the Push render it's own display. Whatever it takes remove the feeling of swimming in molasses.

TequilaKez wrote: ↑

Sun Jan 30, 2022 9:42 pm

-- SNIP --
Buttons that are nice to use in a fast workflow. They require too much force to press, it feels like pressing buttons in slow motion.
-- SNIP --
A rethink of the display. A faster USB3 buss to get data to and from push faster perhaps?
-- SNIP --
Whatever it takes remove the feeling of swimming in molasses.

This makes me wonder - do you think the buttons (not pads!) are mushy because of the lag? Much how (semi-apocryphal) the QWERTY keyboard layout was designed to slow typists to prevent mechanical typewriters from jamming... maybe the slow buttons are to prevent rapid key-presses from being so easy - and leading to more intense feel of lagginess!

And as for "standalone edition" - I'm not holding my breath, but, people should remember "I don't want or need this" isn't the same as "Nobody wants or needs this." And, the existence of multiple editions of Live & (probably) not being able to use VSTs? Not actually a big deal. Possible solution?

Ableton Live 12 could add a new filesave type - "Ableton Self-contained/Compatible Project" that works in Ableton Live and "Live Standalone" - and when a file of this type is open in Live, it wouldn't allow adding VSTs, etc. (you could convert it to "full" if you wanted, too). Fun fact - this would also help simplify the "collaborate with other live users!" thing! A minimum-common-denominator enforced format!

I wonder how many Push 2 owners don’t want a new Push released because that would make their Push the older model? I keep seeing posts of people saying there doesn’t need to be a new Push but don’t you want improvements? I remember when I purchased the original Maschine, I had it for only two weeks and then they announced the Mk II. I was like man, if I would have waited a few weeks. But I held out and realized it wasn’t that much of an improvement and then NI released the Maschine Studio which answered all of my needs at the time. But at 7 years and counting, maybe Ableton has decided that hardware is not in their future so Push 2 is the last Push………… I just know that as a proud Akai Force owner, I’m thinking a stand-alone Push could be so much better and maybe get me to use the Ableton Live DAW more.

People asking for a standalone Push 3 dont really understand what that means. It is a bad idea. There is literally nothing beyond slight convenience that makes it even remotely a sensible idea.

Totally agree, standalone not needed or required. Only improvements for me in the next push IF there is one, is maybe some modular integration CV/Gate I/O.

Also agree, music making only with full power of PC, mouse, connected hardware, all stock and 3rd party VST plugins and full sample library. So no standalone for that purpose.

But i.m.o. a good thing would be a standalone Push 3 for live performances in session mode.

So you would have it all in a robust, stable, linux-based system (push) and no other dependencies, no laptop needed on stage.
- A convert function in Live that freezes everything including side-chains and send-FX and then transfers the project via USB to the push. Self-Contained as overand stated above...
- A load liveset function on the push that allows to load a project and another in the backgroud while the other is playing
- Seamless activation and live transition from one liveset (session) to the other.
- Additional assorted Live effects like filter, EQ, etc. can be inserted on-the-fly on the push for the active project.
- SD card slot or slot for SSD
- Push would have its own audio interface.

..maybe forgot something......

The people asking for a standalone push have no idea what they’re asking for. They basically just want a sample player with internal instruments. There are already standalone devices you can go and buy that do this. Live is NOT a sampler. Live is NOT a synth. Live is a DAW. Push is it’s controller. What they want is not a DAW (or rather an extremely stripped down DAW), and frankly it’s pretty stupid to ask Ableton for that. And the worst part is that Ableton might actually do it, and screw themselves over because stupid people keep pushing for stupid things.

Go buy an MPC. Go buy a Maschine. These are products that are designed to be standalone live instruments. And hey, if Ableton wants to come out with a standalone competitor, then fine, but it shouldn’t be called the Push, and it definitely shouldn’t be a Live controller. Artists and bands who actually rely on Live for their sets cannot afford to have a stripped down version of a DAW in a portable controller. It’s insane for anyone to think that or ask for it. The Push 3 should be an updated controller for Live and that’s all it should be.

Now if Ableton wants to come out with a $3000 standalone device the size of a DJ controller, with 2 hi-Z ins, 8 line ins, 8 line outs, multiple sends and returns, main outs, booth outs, headphone outs, midi ins and outs, record out, 48v XLR ins, and USB ports for power distribution and external controllers, then I’m 100% for that. But a standalone Push in the format of a Push is so unbelievably useless to everyone that seriously uses Live, that if Ableton actually does it, it’s gonna piss a lot of people off and blow up in their faces.

If there was a miniature version with pad matrix the size of launchpad mk3 mini but as strongly built as p2, that would be a killer.

Better use of user mode in any case would be great, with light feedback and knobs display active; plus maybe something like novation components but with essential components actually being available.
That sounds like all doable with p1 and 2 hardware. why p3 then - maybe only to have rgb backlight for scene triggers.

MallorcaMalle wrote: ↑

Tue Mar 08, 2022 4:50 pm

- Additional assorted Live effects like filter, EQ, etc. can be inserted on-the-fly on the push for the active project.

Check the M4L plugin BrowserMapper. You can assign 64 devices to Push pads and load them in a single tap in a currently selected track.

I sold my Push 2 because:
- Missing regular piano keyboard
- Form factor: Push 2 takes up too much space.
- Missing functionalities: chord modes, arragement controls (scrub, play/pause)
- Cost
- Some other minor reasons

I know you can fix this issues with 3rd party addons and things like that but I found myself investing too much time struggling about it.

Now I'm happy with:
- Launchkey 37 Mk3
- Launchpad mini Mk2 (with Launchpad95 MIDI script)
- BCR 2000 (with BCRXL MIDI script)
- Selected track control MIDI Script
- Bome's MIDI Translator

Push 2 is great, but you have to dive in deeply to harness its full potential.

Sometimes we forget we have a screen, a keyboard and a mouse (or trackpad)

I need/want to use Ableton Live more. I don't know if owning a Push will influence more use or not. I love turning on my Akai Force and immediately start jamming as opposed to turning on the Mac Mini, power conditioner, audio interface, and Slate Raven just to get access to Ableton.

What I like most with Push 2 is the seamless integration with Live and functional richness in that context. Just plug-and-play. If you like you can already turn-off the PC monitor and create at least song sketches and structure of patterns and scenes just with Push 2. Browsing all Ableton sounds, stock and VST devices is quite good but could be improved. But for instance NI NKS ready sounds cannot be browsed directly, so it is a great combination if you also have additional Komplete Kontrol MK2 connected so you can load Komplete Kontrol plugin from Push and then browse from the MK2 without need of computer monitor. The ability to pre-listen Ableton's sounds and NKS sounds is a huge time saver. Hands-on automation recording also is fast and easy because even most 3rd party FX parameters are pre-mapped on the Push 2. Also recording Ableton session view live performance directly to arrangement view is great. So yes, i.m.o. it can be lot of fun, creative and productive...

@vokinpirks Thanks didn't know that. But what I meant was more to have some assorted low CPU live performance FX inside the Push Hardware in Stand-Alone-mode for the purpose I described. So there would be no need for a CPU draining convolution reverb directly on the Push stand-alone-hardware but for a simple reverb in a live situation etc.

Will be sooo hard to create a Push 3, considering all the different opinions how this device could/should be used. Either just upgrade Push 2 to make it even better or some really big changes...?! For me, as said, at least stand-alone would not be an option for production. You need the power, VSTs, tools, sounds of the PC. We will see....

I would love a Push mini. Push 2 is fantastic but too big to drop in a backpack with a laptop. Launchkey mini is decent but nowhere near as integrated, and the pots are tiny and hard to grip. Launchpad, again good but no encoders

I think it could be done without hardly losing functions. Make it USB powered. Drop the footswitch connections - single USB cable only. Maybe shrink the screen size down, and show just b/w labels and values more like push 1 (saves power?). Smaller touch strip. Move some buttons around as below, and lose a few. Make it about the same size as maschine Mikro, or the chassis of a 13" MacBook.

I’d happily pay the same as a full size push for this!

I have a really small wish list for the next incarnation...

Possible tech improvements:
- USB-C powered and / or power through
- Audio 2 in + 4 out (main & headphones / cue); maybe a separate model depending on the additional cost

Possible UX improvement:
- Rotary + 4 direction navigation knob (like Maschine's 4D encoder)

subduct wrote: ↑

Thu Sep 22, 2022 12:03 pm

mini

agreed on either a slightly slimmed down push 2 or a mini variant. The push 2's width barely allows it to fit in a carry on suitcase. Its a little too large for transport. There are definitely some ways of freeing up space by reducing some of the size of some buttons or maybe grouping a couple of buttons together or removing buttons that are not being used. I personally find the touch strip not very useful and often trigger it on accident via my palms.

I would love also to see some kind of dual value encoder situation like on the elektron boxes, so you can push down and turn for greater changes in value and regular turn for finer changes in value.

Push 3 in any form should definitely operate bus powered. Having an additional power supply with all of the available power from USB 3.1/C is behind the times.