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Need for an interface(in my situation)?

Posted: Fri Jan 31, 2020 7:28 am
by dubstar123
I am not going to be recording any live instruments and for the time being will just be using headphones. I did the same years ago with an iMac/Logic/headphones and had good results(had house/techno tracks released). Never used an external soundcard or monitors.

Fast forward several years and I have the itch again. No Mac now, will be using a Thinkpad laptop.

What benefits will I get from an interface? Is it the latency/processing of the sound?

I recall back then by the Logic pro guys being told unless I was going to get an Apogee Duet or something along those lines to just use the built in Apple interface. I assume this laptop interface isn't quite up to the same standards as the iMac I had.

Re: Need for an interface(in my situation)?

Posted: Fri Jan 31, 2020 4:27 pm
by TLW
An interface with ASIO drivers will almost certainly get you lower latency than a PC audio chip - though using WDM or WASAPI drivers, if Windows lets you, might do almost as well. PCs don’t have an equivalent to the Mac’s Core Audio functions. Though using the built-in chip on a Mac won’t get latency as low as an interface from a manufacturer that has good drivers supplied with it, such as RME.

Do you need an interface? Other than if the latency causes you problems, if you’re doing everything “in the box” then you can probably manage without one unless you need a high sampling rate that the built-in chips don’t support.

As for the convertor chips, lots of interfaces use the same ones because there’s not that many available. My RME UFX has the same output side digital->audio convertor chip as some considerably less expensive Presonus interfaces. Where the RME has the advantage is its supporting analogue electronics which are very low noise, low cross-talk, the 12 inputs, 8 outputs and the drivers. Also RME usually support their older products and release new driver and firmware builds for years after they go out of production, which is more than some manufacturers do.

Re: Need for an interface(in my situation)?

Posted: Fri Jan 31, 2020 4:33 pm
by dubstar123
Great! Thanks for the info. I ran into a little latency issue but think I have mostly gotten it sorted out I think, at least in the project I have been working on.

If needed I was maybe going to get the Scarlett Solo since inputs and outputs really aren't a factor. Not sure if that would be much better than built in or not.

Re: Need for an interface(in my situation)?

Posted: Sat Feb 01, 2020 1:39 am
by jlgrimes
dubstar123 wrote:
Fri Jan 31, 2020 7:28 am
I am not going to be recording any live instruments and for the time being will just be using headphones. I did the same years ago with an iMac/Logic/headphones and had good results(had house/techno tracks released). Never used an external soundcard or monitors.

Fast forward several years and I have the itch again. No Mac now, will be using a Thinkpad laptop.

What benefits will I get from an interface? Is it the latency/processing of the sound?

I recall back then by the Logic pro guys being told unless I was going to get an Apogee Duet or something along those lines to just use the built in Apple interface. I assume this laptop interface isn't quite up to the same standards as the iMac I had.
You can download ASIO4ALL which should give your stock PC sound card low latency.

ASIO4ALL normally is "good enough" for soft synth playback.

Try it out. The sound quality is usually decent on most PCs, as people are using them to play music, movies etc. It is usually the speakers that are total crap but by using an audio cable connecting to a PA, you probably will be fine.

That said Focusrite Scarletts are good interfaces to start out with.

An interface will give the following:

1. More I/O options. Basic ones will have a line/monitor out, hiz input, mic pre, headphone output. More advanced ones will allow for recording full bands, different headphones monitoring outputs.

2. "Studio grade" sound quality. That said some low end interfaces might not be that much better than your sound card (some could even be worse). Some sound cards are pretty nice as well. High end ones will be pretty much transparent devices with better mic pres, headphone amps etc. You need to do your research here though. Usually though most are fine for studio grade recordings but some older interfaces are 16 bit only which is not necessarily a bad thing but can be noiser than a 24 bit especially if recording at low levels. 24 bits will allow recording at pretty low levels making it easier to avoid clipping while still achieving a high SNR. It pays to look at the specs of interface to see what you are getting. Dynamic Range should be high. THD should be low. Freq Response should be flat up to 20khz.

3. Lower latency (usually). Most modern interfaces will have low latency though. I find that almost any interface is good for soft synths. For monitoring audio with VSTS though low roundtrip latency is important. Usually if it is under 10 ms, it is reasonably low as most folks wont be able to sense it. Over 10ms starts to become annoying. Over 20ms is probably not even usable.

4. Peformance/stability. That said some USB interfaces especially older ones can be pretty bad but most new stuff is good. Not all USB is bad though. Some is great but you have to do your homework here.

5. Effects processing. Some higher end devices have built-in effects and are great effect processors as well as being great interfaces. It is all about finding what are your needs in an interface.

6. Allow multiclient audio (windows) usually. Not an issue with Macs at all but if you use ASIO4ALL, it only allows for one client in playing back audio which can be annoying when for example you are watching a YouTube tutorial and want to follow along in your DAW. Not possible with ASIO4ALL (and some older interfaces). Need to do your homework here but most modern interfaces support this. Some better than others though. While most modern USB interfaces will allow you to watch YouTube while playing your DAW, some can become glitchy if trying to play two different DAWS (Scarletts are glitchy in this case). Thunderbolt might be better here (or maybe even higher end USB interfaces).


That said if you dont need to record audio, or need multi-outs, you probably can get by without one and it can save money, headaches.

Re: Need for an interface(in my situation)?

Posted: Sat Feb 01, 2020 3:00 am
by dubstar123
jlgrimes wrote:
Sat Feb 01, 2020 1:39 am

You can download ASIO4ALL which should give your stock PC sound card low latency.

ASIO4ALL normally is "good enough" for soft synth playback.

Try it out. The sound quality is usually decent on most PCs, as people are using them to play music, movies etc. It is usually the speakers that are total crap but by using an audio cable connecting to a PA, you probably will be fine.

That said Focusrite Scarletts are good interfaces to start out with.

An interface will give the following:

1. More I/O options. Basic ones will have a line/monitor out, hiz input, mic pre, headphone output. More advanced ones will allow for recording full bands, different headphones monitoring outputs.

2. "Studio grade" sound quality. That said some low end interfaces might not be that much better than your sound card (some could even be worse). Some sound cards are pretty nice as well. High end ones will be pretty much transparent devices with better mic pres, headphone amps etc. You need to do your research here though. Usually though most are fine for studio grade recordings but some older interfaces are 16 bit only which is not necessarily a bad thing but can be noiser than a 24 bit especially if recording at low levels. 24 bits will allow recording at pretty low levels making it easier to avoid clipping while still achieving a high SNR. It pays to look at the specs of interface to see what you are getting. Dynamic Range should be high. THD should be low. Freq Response should be flat up to 20khz.

3. Lower latency (usually). Most modern interfaces will have low latency though. I find that almost any interface is good for soft synths. For monitoring audio with VSTS though low roundtrip latency is important. Usually if it is under 10 ms, it is reasonably low as most folks wont be able to sense it. Over 10ms starts to become annoying. Over 20ms is probably not even usable.

4. Peformance/stability. That said some USB interfaces especially older ones can be pretty bad but most new stuff is good. Not all USB is bad though. Some is great but you have to do your homework here.

5. Effects processing. Some higher end devices have built-in effects and are great effect processors as well as being great interfaces. It is all about finding what are your needs in an interface.

6. Allow multiclient audio (windows) usually. Not an issue with Macs at all but if you use ASIO4ALL, it only allows for one client in playing back audio which can be annoying when for example you are watching a YouTube tutorial and want to follow along in your DAW. Not possible with ASIO4ALL (and some older interfaces). Need to do your homework here but most modern interfaces support this. Some better than others though. While most modern USB interfaces will allow you to watch YouTube while playing your DAW, some can become glitchy if trying to play two different DAWS (Scarletts are glitchy in this case). Thunderbolt might be better here (or maybe even higher end USB interfaces).


That said if you dont need to record audio, or need multi-outs, you probably can get by without one and it can save money, headaches.
Thanks for the detailed response. Good info there. Even though this question is fairly noobish sounding, I am generally familiar with what interfaces offer, and stuff like UAD with on board DSP. Even though I have never had a home studio set up, have always been fairly obsessed with the process ans the gear involved I watch a lot of videos even for stuff that I'll never purchase. I have played guitar, had various stages of dj gear(tables, cdj, realtor) and produced the house/techno(in the box). Just never had an interface for purposes of producing in Logic or now Ableton

I was more so asking just for my specific scenario what will the benefits be, mainly the driver and latency. I actually had a Scarlett solo a couple of years ago when I was messing around with recording guitar, but I wasn't really paying attention to stuff like latency at the time. It seemed fine from what I recall.

Also looking at the NI Audio Kontrol 1 perhaps.

As far as ASIO4ALL - I have already installed that and to be honest it sounds significantly worse than the stock audio driver I was using. The audio level is significantly lower it doesn't sound as punchy / good. not sure if I'm doing something wrong but that is sort of what prompted this question is will I get better performance with a better driver by just buying an external sound card.

I'm not looking to spend a lot of money but I would be into spinning somewhere between 100 and $150 if that meant lower latency and better sound quality even though I'm not using monitors or anything like that.

Re: Need for an interface(in my situation)?

Posted: Sat Feb 01, 2020 5:22 am
by TLW
I used ASIO4ALL many years ago on a laptop for precisely the purpose you are talking about. I remember it as working OK for latency but being a bit tricky to set up optimally. That said, it was a very long time ago in computing terms; back when Pentiums were a fairly new thing. I haven’t actually used a PC or Windows for anything other than games in over four years, though I do try and keep up generally with what’s going on.

If you can get the latency low enough with the PC’s chip then a cheap sound card probably won’t improve things much, if at all. Other than give you more outputs and inputs of course. The only cheap ones I’d consider are the Focusrite ones both for quality and the Focusrite driver. Some manufacturers actually tell you to use ASIO4ALL with at least their lower priced interfaces rather than supplying their own drivers. Which saves them money and the hassle of supporting a driver themselves I suppose.

Re: Need for an interface(in my situation)?

Posted: Sat Feb 01, 2020 11:35 am
by jlgrimes
dubstar123 wrote:
Sat Feb 01, 2020 3:00 am
jlgrimes wrote:
Sat Feb 01, 2020 1:39 am

You can download ASIO4ALL which should give your stock PC sound card low latency.

ASIO4ALL normally is "good enough" for soft synth playback.

Try it out. The sound quality is usually decent on most PCs, as people are using them to play music, movies etc. It is usually the speakers that are total crap but by using an audio cable connecting to a PA, you probably will be fine.

That said Focusrite Scarletts are good interfaces to start out with.

An interface will give the following:

1. More I/O options. Basic ones will have a line/monitor out, hiz input, mic pre, headphone output. More advanced ones will allow for recording full bands, different headphones monitoring outputs.

2. "Studio grade" sound quality. That said some low end interfaces might not be that much better than your sound card (some could even be worse). Some sound cards are pretty nice as well. High end ones will be pretty much transparent devices with better mic pres, headphone amps etc. You need to do your research here though. Usually though most are fine for studio grade recordings but some older interfaces are 16 bit only which is not necessarily a bad thing but can be noiser than a 24 bit especially if recording at low levels. 24 bits will allow recording at pretty low levels making it easier to avoid clipping while still achieving a high SNR. It pays to look at the specs of interface to see what you are getting. Dynamic Range should be high. THD should be low. Freq Response should be flat up to 20khz.

3. Lower latency (usually). Most modern interfaces will have low latency though. I find that almost any interface is good for soft synths. For monitoring audio with VSTS though low roundtrip latency is important. Usually if it is under 10 ms, it is reasonably low as most folks wont be able to sense it. Over 10ms starts to become annoying. Over 20ms is probably not even usable.

4. Peformance/stability. That said some USB interfaces especially older ones can be pretty bad but most new stuff is good. Not all USB is bad though. Some is great but you have to do your homework here.

5. Effects processing. Some higher end devices have built-in effects and are great effect processors as well as being great interfaces. It is all about finding what are your needs in an interface.

6. Allow multiclient audio (windows) usually. Not an issue with Macs at all but if you use ASIO4ALL, it only allows for one client in playing back audio which can be annoying when for example you are watching a YouTube tutorial and want to follow along in your DAW. Not possible with ASIO4ALL (and some older interfaces). Need to do your homework here but most modern interfaces support this. Some better than others though. While most modern USB interfaces will allow you to watch YouTube while playing your DAW, some can become glitchy if trying to play two different DAWS (Scarletts are glitchy in this case). Thunderbolt might be better here (or maybe even higher end USB interfaces).


That said if you dont need to record audio, or need multi-outs, you probably can get by without one and it can save money, headaches.
Thanks for the detailed response. Good info there. Even though this question is fairly noobish sounding, I am generally familiar with what interfaces offer, and stuff like UAD with on board DSP. Even though I have never had a home studio set up, have always been fairly obsessed with the process ans the gear involved I watch a lot of videos even for stuff that I'll never purchase. I have played guitar, had various stages of dj gear(tables, cdj, realtor) and produced the house/techno(in the box). Just never had an interface for purposes of producing in Logic or now Ableton

I was more so asking just for my specific scenario what will the benefits be, mainly the driver and latency. I actually had a Scarlett solo a couple of years ago when I was messing around with recording guitar, but I wasn't really paying attention to stuff like latency at the time. It seemed fine from what I recall.

Also looking at the NI Audio Kontrol 1 perhaps.

As far as ASIO4ALL - I have already installed that and to be honest it sounds significantly worse than the stock audio driver I was using. The audio level is significantly lower it doesn't sound as punchy / good. not sure if I'm doing something wrong but that is sort of what prompted this question is will I get better performance with a better driver by just buying an external sound card.

I'm not looking to spend a lot of money but I would be into spinning somewhere between 100 and $150 if that meant lower latency and better sound quality even though I'm not using monitors or anything like that.

Dont know why it would sound worse on your system. it always sound the same when I use it with just less latency (which is good).

100-150 is definitely budget for a Scarlett. 2i2 will give you more flexible input controls.

2i4 will give you more outputs but also require external power and a good deal bigger (important to know if performing live)

Re: Need for an interface(in my situation)?

Posted: Sat Feb 01, 2020 3:26 pm
by dubstar123
jlgrimes wrote:
Sat Feb 01, 2020 11:35 am

Dont know why it would sound worse on your system. it always sound the same when I use it with just less latency (which is good).

100-150 is definitely budget for a Scarlett. 2i2 will give you more flexible input controls.

2i4 will give you more outputs but also require external power and a good deal bigger (important to know if performing live)
Yea I was surprised. Probably cut the output in half and I had to boost the PC volume way up. Probably a placebo that it didn't actually sound as good, due to the instant volume drop. Probably sounded the same when I got it leveled back up

But I am not sure why the big drop in level with it. May try again today. About to go through the "optimizing win 10 for audio" steps to make sure I am getting the best possible performance

Re: Need for an interface(in my situation)?

Posted: Sat Feb 01, 2020 5:10 pm
by jlgrimes
dubstar123 wrote:
Sat Feb 01, 2020 3:26 pm
jlgrimes wrote:
Sat Feb 01, 2020 11:35 am

Dont know why it would sound worse on your system. it always sound the same when I use it with just less latency (which is good).

100-150 is definitely budget for a Scarlett. 2i2 will give you more flexible input controls.

2i4 will give you more outputs but also require external power and a good deal bigger (important to know if performing live)
Yea I was surprised. Probably cut the output in half and I had to boost the PC volume way up. Probably a placebo that it didn't actually sound as good, due to the instant volume drop. Probably sounded the same when I got it leveled back up

But I am not sure why the big drop in level with it. May try again today. About to go through the "optimizing win 10 for audio" steps to make sure I am getting the best possible performance

Yeah I think all it really does is bypass a Windows mixer that has alot of latency. Shouldn't affect sound at all.

Re: Need for an interface(in my situation)?

Posted: Sat Feb 01, 2020 6:54 pm
by dubstar123
jlgrimes wrote:
Sat Feb 01, 2020 5:10 pm
Yeah I think all it really does is bypass a Windows mixer that has alot of latency. Shouldn't affect sound at all.
I removed it, reinstalled and set it back up again and still get the volume drop. Have to bump the windows sound from 40 up to like 70 to get about the same output.

I checked a handful of ASIO4ALL set up/troubleshooting vida and none of them mentioned or indicated a volume drop at all. I can definitely get lower latency settings with it though so that makes up for the volume loss.

Would still love to figure that part out if anyone has any ideas!