Crashing every time I disconnect interface

Discuss music production with Ableton Live.
luv
Posts: 24
Joined: Fri Jan 19, 2007 7:51 am

Crashing every time I disconnect interface

Post by luv » Thu Oct 28, 2021 11:10 pm

Hey yall,
I have already searched the forums and support base and not found a fix, so hopefully this will help others (and myself!)

Every time I disconnect my audio interface (Focusrite Scarlett 18i8) from my PC it crashes Ableton and ignores any attempts to boot it up until I do a full restart. I use a laptop and usually have Live running in the background so this is quite a buzzkill/creativity killer. Anything I can do (aside from constantly turn my interface on/off or open/close Live) .. I know that works but I'd like a more seamless and forgiving workflow, or would prefer to know what I can do in my PC/what's going on that's preventing it from starting up (or happening in the first place)
Any help much appreciated! Thanks!
luv,
luv

jestermgee
Posts: 4500
Joined: Mon Apr 26, 2010 6:38 am

Re: Crashing every time I disconnect interface

Post by jestermgee » Thu Oct 28, 2021 11:27 pm

luv wrote:
Thu Oct 28, 2021 11:10 pm
turn my interface on/off or open/close Live .. I know that works but I'd like a more seamless and forgiving workflow,
That is your solution dude.

I understand you want things to bend to your way of working but it is far better to understand how a square peg fits in a square hole than to want to design a round hole and then change the peg to fit.

The reason Live crashes is because you are using a high level driver connection between hardware and software and you have a lot of stuff going on in the background of the OS to make all this work with low latency and reliability. If you then just yank out the pipeline then yes, often software will crash when the world it is running in suddenly vanishes and it will also lock up the kernel driver causing you to have to reboot (or just log off/on again). Remember, this is "Pro Audio" gear and so requires some more delicate attention and understanding than typical ways users like to just stick things in and out of stuff at random.

No way around it other than instead, retrain yourself to understand this and go through the actual proper procedure of shutting down Live first before disconnecting the whole audio system it is relying on for function.

jestermgee
Posts: 4500
Joined: Mon Apr 26, 2010 6:38 am

Re: Crashing every time I disconnect interface

Post by jestermgee » Thu Oct 28, 2021 11:30 pm

Sorry, one possible workaround would be to not use the ASIO drive and instead use the shared WASAPI/WMD audio driver so the audio is not a direct connection but rather runs via the windows mixer. This will be more forgiving if the interface vanishes since Lice maintains contact with the windows driver BUT this comes at the obvious cost of increased latency and decreased performance so choice is yours I guess.

luv
Posts: 24
Joined: Fri Jan 19, 2007 7:51 am

Re: Crashing every time I disconnect interface

Post by luv » Fri Oct 29, 2021 3:21 am

jestermgee wrote:
Thu Oct 28, 2021 11:27 pm
luv wrote:
Thu Oct 28, 2021 11:10 pm
turn my interface on/off or open/close Live .. I know that works but I'd like a more seamless and forgiving workflow,
That is your solution dude.

I understand you want things to bend to your way of working but it is far better to understand how a square peg fits in a square hole than to want to design a round hole and then change the peg to fit.

The reason Live crashes is because you are using a high level driver connection between hardware and software and you have a lot of stuff going on in the background of the OS to make all this work with low latency and reliability. If you then just yank out the pipeline then yes, often software will crash when the world it is running in suddenly vanishes and it will also lock up the kernel driver causing you to have to reboot (or just log off/on again). Remember, this is "Pro Audio" gear and so requires some more delicate attention and understanding than typical ways users like to just stick things in and out of stuff at random.

No way around it other than instead, retrain yourself to understand this and go through the actual proper procedure of shutting down Live first before disconnecting the whole audio system it is relying on for function.
damn, who hurt you, son?

i try to but sometimes i forget and it's annoying. i'vebeen using Live for over 15 years and this interface for like 5 and it never happened before.
luv,
luv

luv
Posts: 24
Joined: Fri Jan 19, 2007 7:51 am

Re: Crashing every time I disconnect interface

Post by luv » Fri Oct 29, 2021 3:22 am

jestermgee wrote:
Thu Oct 28, 2021 11:30 pm
Sorry, one possible workaround would be to not use the ASIO drive and instead use the shared WASAPI/WMD audio driver so the audio is not a direct connection but rather runs via the windows mixer. This will be more forgiving if the interface vanishes since Lice maintains contact with the windows driver BUT this comes at the obvious cost of increased latency and decreased performance so choice is yours I guess.
thanks, but latency is not an option! no gracias i'd rather restart :P
luv,
luv

miyaru
Posts: 1267
Joined: Tue Jan 10, 2017 12:08 pm
Location: The Netherlands

Re: Crashing every time I disconnect interface

Post by miyaru » Fri Oct 29, 2021 4:43 am

luv wrote:
Fri Oct 29, 2021 3:21 am
jestermgee wrote:
Thu Oct 28, 2021 11:27 pm
luv wrote:
Thu Oct 28, 2021 11:10 pm
turn my interface on/off or open/close Live .. I know that works but I'd like a more seamless and forgiving workflow,
That is your solution dude.

I understand you want things to bend to your way of working but it is far better to understand how a square peg fits in a square hole than to want to design a round hole and then change the peg to fit.

The reason Live crashes is because you are using a high level driver connection between hardware and software and you have a lot of stuff going on in the background of the OS to make all this work with low latency and reliability. If you then just yank out the pipeline then yes, often software will crash when the world it is running in suddenly vanishes and it will also lock up the kernel driver causing you to have to reboot (or just log off/on again). Remember, this is "Pro Audio" gear and so requires some more delicate attention and understanding than typical ways users like to just stick things in and out of stuff at random.

No way around it other than instead, retrain yourself to understand this and go through the actual proper procedure of shutting down Live first before disconnecting the whole audio system it is relying on for function.
damn, who hurt you, son?

i try to but sometimes i forget and it's annoying. i'vebeen using Live for over 15 years and this interface for like 5 and it never happened before.
"Damn, who hurt you son"? For someone who is trying to help? Mmmmmm.........
Greetings from Miyaru.
Prodaw i7-7700, 16Gb Ram, Focusrite Scarlett 18i20 3rd gen, ESI M4U eX, Reason 12, Live Suit 10, Push2, Presonus Eris E8 and Monitor Station V2, Lexicon MPX1,
Korg N1, Yamaha RM1x :mrgreen:

Mark Williams
Posts: 898
Joined: Sun Aug 10, 2014 2:43 pm
Location: Kent

Re: Crashing every time I disconnect interface

Post by Mark Williams » Fri Oct 29, 2021 6:34 am

luv wrote:
Fri Oct 29, 2021 3:21 am


damn, who hurt you, son?
If you dont like the answer, dont ask the question.
Live 11, M1 Mac Mini, Push 2, Scarlett 18i20 & ADA8200, Softube Console 1 Mk2, Deepmind12, Hydrasynth, Cobalt 8M, Moog Subsequent 25, IK Uno Synth Pro, Plethora X3, Nord Drum 3P

jestermgee
Posts: 4500
Joined: Mon Apr 26, 2010 6:38 am

Re: Crashing every time I disconnect interface

Post by jestermgee » Fri Oct 29, 2021 6:48 am

Prob use to answers being sugar coated to fit the way he wants to function, was just saying how it is mate. I also had to learn to shut live down before powering off the interface back on Windows XP and also cannot hibernate my pc for the same issue. Live and learn and carry on. After 25 years myself I’ve learned pretty quick to just accept how things work unless you want a world of complications.

luv
Posts: 24
Joined: Fri Jan 19, 2007 7:51 am

Re: Crashing every time I disconnect interface

Post by luv » Fri Oct 29, 2021 7:57 pm

jestermgee wrote:
Fri Oct 29, 2021 6:48 am
Prob use to answers being sugar coated to fit the way he wants to function, was just saying how it is mate. I also had to learn to shut live down before powering off the interface back on Windows XP and also cannot hibernate my pc for the same issue. Live and learn and carry on. After 25 years myself I’ve learned pretty quick to just accept how things work unless you want a world of complications.
fair enough m8!
luv,
luv

Piplodocus
Posts: 825
Joined: Sun Dec 30, 2007 9:48 pm
Location: Southampton, UK

Re: Crashing every time I disconnect interface

Post by Piplodocus » Sat Oct 30, 2021 12:20 pm

I don’t wanna be "that guy", but you could buy a Mac! I can turn my Fireface on and off happily and it just makes lives audio engine turn off.

But I still reckon just Alt-F4, "yes", unplug/plug device, and double-click the Live icon is a lot easier solution than buying a new computer and swapping OSes. 😂

chintimin
Posts: 3
Joined: Thu Jun 16, 2022 9:59 am

Re: Crashing every time I disconnect interface

Post by chintimin » Fri Jul 08, 2022 6:37 am

Piplodocus wrote:
Sat Oct 30, 2021 12:20 pm
I don’t wanna be "that guy", but you could buy a Mac! I can turn my Fireface on and off happily and it just makes lives audio engine turn off.

But I still reckon just Alt-F4, "yes", unplug/plug device, and double-click the Live icon is a lot easier solution than buying a new computer and swapping OSes. 😂
honestly? Probably not. Like, I'm seriously considering buying a mac. Getting a used mac mini for 400$ with an M1 proc and 16 GB of memory and an SSD is actually probably an easier fix.

Seriously, though, having my usb sound card disconnects crash my professional fucking DAW is beyond ridiculous.

Vaultnaemsae
Posts: 11
Joined: Sat May 19, 2018 4:39 am

Re: Crashing every time I disconnect interface

Post by Vaultnaemsae » Thu Feb 23, 2023 9:17 am

I just came across this thread and remembered I raised the same issue with Ableton support maybe 2-3 years ago. It seems it has never been seriously addressed.

I use an aggregate audio device consisting of three sub-devices in macOS 13. It works perfectly in Mainstage, Logic Pro, Bitwig and BC PatchWork but carries a caveat in Live 11 (and 10 before it).

In general, if a non-bus-powered USB audio device loses its external power /or/ if any (bus-powered/non-bus-powered) USB audio device's physical USB port connection is disrupted, Live 11 immediately crashes. Other DAWs simply don't do this!!!

Even switching between certain audio devices in the I/O settings can crash Live. I have to select the mac's internal mic/speakers first and then select another external device to make sure Live doesn't crash. It's a minor annoyance when you are in tweaking mode.

I've been testing Bitwig 4 over the last couple of days and have found the audio I/O is infinitely more stable and reliable when making adjustments to settings -- i.e. I couldn't break it! Though I cannot say its MIDI capabilities are anywhere near those of Live 11.

It would be superb if the good people at Ableton could address the USB audio stability issue. As the last poster mentioned, "...having my usb sound card disconnects crash my professional fucking DAW is beyond ridiculous." Here here!

Vaultnaemsae
Posts: 11
Joined: Sat May 19, 2018 4:39 am

Re: Crashing every time I disconnect interface

Post by Vaultnaemsae » Fri Feb 24, 2023 1:58 am

Yes, you're right. Crash reports have been submitted plenty of times. Just having a rant.

fishmonkey
Posts: 4478
Joined: Wed Oct 24, 2007 4:50 am

Re: Crashing every time I disconnect interface

Post by fishmonkey » Sat Feb 25, 2023 1:30 am

Vaultnaemsae wrote:
Fri Feb 24, 2023 1:58 am
Yes, you're right. Crash reports have been submitted plenty of times. Just having a rant.
it's strange that Ableton haven't fixed this behaviour. i guess that there is some deep audio engine structure that makes this not straightforward to fix...

DunedinDragon
Posts: 106
Joined: Thu Jul 22, 2021 5:46 pm

Re: Crashing every time I disconnect interface

Post by DunedinDragon » Sat Feb 25, 2023 10:48 am

fishmonkey wrote:
Sat Feb 25, 2023 1:30 am
Vaultnaemsae wrote:
Fri Feb 24, 2023 1:58 am
Yes, you're right. Crash reports have been submitted plenty of times. Just having a rant.
it's strange that Ableton haven't fixed this behaviour. i guess that there is some deep audio engine structure that makes this not straightforward to fix...
Yes...it's called multi-threading and is at the core of any kind of complex application. Just because you have one application running doesn't mean that application only has one process executing. In this case there are MANY processes going on which allows you to have a responsive system with very little latency. They could easily fix it if you'd like to try recording with 2 second latency between when you play the note and it gets recorded.

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