Ableton Forum

Hello U guys

probably not the smartest question, but: what is the difference between remote scrips and max for live devices?


Thanks!

It's two really different things....

Remote scripts are scripts written in python that define Control Surfaces, so in other terms associates MIDI messages to actions in Live and vice-versa.

There is a "light" version consisting in an editable .txt file in the "User Remote scripts" folder, very easy to use, that lets you define a certain amount of actions, but is limited to 8 tracks and 16 params ('blue hand') with no flexibility.

Both are loaded with the Live app when it starts and are selected in the MIDI preferences.

"Max for Live devices" could be anything. Instruments, Midi effects, Audio Effects, but they can also act as a medium to code control surfaces scripts. They are loaded in tracks.

Also, since ... recently ...There have been some moves to bridge the gap between the two. It used to be the case that M4L couldn't really script for the control surface but there have been some changes to Max which now enable users to define what physical controls on their hardware controller will do. So for example if you found that your Launch control XL volume sliders had too much sensitivity near the top part of their range it used to be the case that you'd have to write a whole new control surface script in python to address that. More recently Max has allowed us to grab individual controls and assign functions to them, such as in this example: make the track faders have a different response curve.

Angstrom wrote: ↑

Sat Jun 25, 2022 4:21 pm

More recently Max has allowed us to grab individual controls and assign functions to them, such as in this example: make the track faders have a different response curve.

Thank you! I've been looking for an M4L device for a while that can adjust the 'sensitivity' of an (endless) encoder as a function. Do you have an idea where exactly these devices can be found on e.g. maxforlive.com? I searched under 'sensitivity' but couldn't find anything in this regard.

Thanks a lot!!

supahgrass wrote: ↑

Sat Jun 25, 2022 6:01 pm

Angstrom wrote: ↑

Sat Jun 25, 2022 4:21 pm

More recently Max has allowed us to grab individual controls and assign functions to them, such as in this example: make the track faders have a different response curve.

Thank you! I've been looking for an M4L device for a while that can adjust the 'sensitivity' of an (endless) encoder as a function. Do you have an idea where exactly these devices can be found on e.g. maxforlive.com? I searched under 'sensitivity' but couldn't find anything in this regard.

Thanks a lot!!

Unfortunately there are very few around, if any. One of the main problems with M4L is it is super opaque to users. So while it is theoreticaly now possible for M4L to "grab_control" off the remote script and apply a function to it - the reality is that Ableton long ago abandoned the "easy for users" part.
In fact - Rather than a self-explanatory system which reveals itself during experimentation the M4L methodology its a very old-style IDE which reveals its features via confusing user post of disparate forums.

Apparently the Control Surface API was released with Live 10, we should be awash with cool modal hardware togglers which allow programatic interfacing with physical controllers. Instead Live and Cyclings developers seem stuck in a world of 2005, they expect users to figure it out from a scanty API documentation, and a system which will fail silenty if you try to interface with it.

In fact, googling Ableton M4L control surface will not get you a Live tutorial, or even a promo video about the feature, but rather a video by Stray from 2017 and a few post on the Cycling74 forum.

The terms to search for are all to be found in the LOM docs, but Ableton are seemingly blind to the user unfriendliness of their chosen modular system.

M4L fans often wonder "why people cant see the value in Max" but I've often compared it's potential to that of a well stocked cabinet of semiconductors. The cabinet of chips is overflowing with easilly leveraged potential to those whose creativity is expressed through their engineering or computer science degree ... but that same stockpile is practically useless to everyone else.

Thank you for coming to my Annual TED talk "What Ableton Got Wrong"

https://docs.cycling74.com/max8/vignett ... rolSurface

I'm actually currently learning how to make control surfaces in M4L. It's indeed very tedious, especially if you 'stick' to Max. Javascript inside Max gives you a much more straightforward and flexible way to do it, but...requires learning (a bit) Javascript.
If you have a particular hardware + control surface in mind, and a VERY precise idea of what you'd wish to modify, maybe 'someone' could help.

chapelier fou wrote: ↑

Sun Jun 26, 2022 7:39 pm

I'm actually currently learning how to make control surfaces in M4L. It's indeed very tedious, especially if you 'stick' to Max. Javascript inside Max gives you a much more straightforward and flexible way to do it, but...requires learning (a bit) Javascript.

Yeah, I got into this area because I wanted to specify a transfer curve for the faders on a LaunchControl Currently (on stage) the usable range between nearly silent and too loud (-6db to +3db) occurs within 1cm of travel. So I wanted that range to be mapped to half the travel of the potentiometer, and with the lower half covering the range down to -inf.

I started investigating the M4L route because my Python Decompiler didn't handle the newer Python scripts very well. I foolishly thought the "official way" using M4L would be more sleek, modern, and efficient.
I was wrong! What a mess!

Angstrom wrote: ↑

Sun Jun 26, 2022 7:30 pm

Thank you for coming to my Annual TED talk "What Ableton Got Wrong"

Great talk.
And so true. I experience it the same.