USB & Ableton - sound loss through mixer

mobsta · Post by **mobsta** » Mon Aug 01, 2005 9:36 pm

Help,

I am using a USB connection from my laptop as an output into the phono/ line in sockets in in the back of my mixer. I am getting a huge volume difference between CD and vinyl compared to stuff coming through from ableton. Is there anyway of increasing the output volume? The volume controls are all at there default levels but increasing them just disstorts everything. Turning up the mixer levels even to full is still to low.

Advice would be appretiated....

Thanks.

rikhyray · Post by **rikhyray** » Mon Aug 01, 2005 11:23 pm

Remember that all that CD and vinyl is professionally mastered. The unfortunate fashion makes it sickning sometimes, compressed too much. So you have to work on the tracks volume and compression. Throwing Ableton compressor or or limiter on the master will already help a lot but serious compression and mastering is real science and lots of experience.
First step- put limiter on master and it might soundalready much better, sorry I mean louder.

Michael-SW · Post by **Michael-SW** » Mon Aug 01, 2005 11:41 pm

What happens if you play some mp3s in Winamp or something on the computer? Same problem? Wasn't entirely clear if the CD/vinyl reference was from the computer or some external player.

It might be that the actual level out is lower - perhaps nothing to do with compresion etc.

USB connection? What kind of audio hardware?

mobsta · Post by **mobsta** » Tue Aug 02, 2005 9:10 am

Just to clarify,

I am using external players such as technics 1210 turntables, CDJ 1000's through a Pioneer 600 mixer. Ableton is going into the line in/cd input into the back of the mixer and i am using all these devices at once. I have played CDs through the computer to check volume levels and it compares exactly with the external CDJ and vinyl. Increasing the gain obviously disstorts everything as well.

I have increased the level out from my computer (through control panel and audio devices) to their full settings..... this doesnt work either.

Thanks for your advice so far. Any other ideas????

Cheers, Rob.

robin · Post by **robin** » Tue Aug 02, 2005 9:23 am

what are you playing with Live. your own compositions? recorded tunes from vinyl? stuff taken from CD?

if you are recording vinyl that could be a problem so i'd take that CD that sounds fine when played on the laptop via other means and then play off that in Live.

if that sounds fine then it's the mastering of your own composition/recorded vinyl that's at fault.

hope that helps.

mobsta · Post by **mobsta** » Tue Aug 02, 2005 9:54 am

Hi robin,

The depletion in sound occurs with WAVs MP3's, vinyl and profesionally mastered music so its not that.

I thought the sound loss may occur when the ableton analyses the track when dragged into the clip slot for the first time??

Can you change the output volume through th preferences menu???

Thanks again for your ideas.

robin · Post by **robin** » Tue Aug 02, 2005 10:04 am

hi rob,

mobsta wrote: The depletion in sound occurs with WAVs MP3's, vinyl and profesionally mastered music so its not that.

so all output from Live is affected. when you played your cd (not in Live) on the machine and it sounded ok was that though the same audio interface?

I thought the sound loss may occur when the ableton analyses the track when dragged into the clip slot for the first time??

unlikely but you shouls visually check that the clip waveform looks to be normal in the clip view at the bottom (ie the amplitude of the wave should reaach the top, but only just...over that is clipping). there is a volume slider on the left of the clip waveform in the clip prefs that can be used to adjust this if it isn't (remember to press the save button there if you do adjust).

mobsta · Post by **mobsta** » Tue Aug 02, 2005 11:09 am

so all output from Live is affected. when you played your cd (not in Live) on the machine and it sounded ok was that though the same audio interface?

This is how the setup goes....

ableton - usb - mixer - amp - speakers

CDJ 1000 - mixer - amp - speakers.

The USB interface is the only difference in setup.

there is a volume slider on the left of the clip waveform in the clip prefs that can be used to adjust this if it isn't (remember to press the save button there if you do adjust).

I havent tried this as most default samples in ableton itself do not peak at the top. This may be the answer but i am sure i tried this and the sound just disstorted. I will try again later, but thanks again Robin.

robin · Post by **robin** » Tue Aug 02, 2005 11:21 am

mobsta wrote:
This is how the setup goes....

ableton - usb - mixer - amp - speakers

CDJ 1000 - mixer - amp - speakers.

The USB interface is the only difference in setup.

what i meant was when you play the cd in winamp or whatever on the computer and output that to the mixer did you go via your usb audio interface like you do when playing the same file via Live?

there is a volume slider on the left of the clip waveform in the clip prefs that can be used to adjust this if it isn't (remember to press the save button there if you do adjust).

I havent tried this as most default samples in ableton itself do not peak at the top. This may be the answer but i am sure i tried this and the sound just disstorted. I will try again later, but thanks again Robin.[/quote]

yeah if it distorts then that's probs clipping.

DJRetard · Post by **DJRetard** » Tue Aug 02, 2005 11:28 am

Are you sure you soundcard outs are plugged in to the Line inputs of your mixer? I know obvious question but just to make sure.

And your sure your master volume of your sound card is right up?

I have the same setup as you and I refer to vinyl or CD's. Usually without any compression or limiting Im in the right ballpark so providing everything is connetced properly the difference in volume shoudl be very similiar.

With comercially mastered records and CDs they will usually be a little louder. This is done by careful EQ-Compression-Limiting.

for example you could have this in your stereo master chain

1. Waves Linear Multiband Compressor. This one smooths out the peaks of the music allowing for a more even frequency spectrum of your song. It takes time to get used to it but practice with it. At first you will think it makes your music sound smaller, it does, but then you add

2. A single band compressor to give the track some Pump action. By inserting the LINMB first this ensures that your single banc compression doesnt have to work to hard. Think about it, if you have lots of highs and deep lows a single band compressor is going to have to work hard.

3. Then a Phase Linear Eq for adjusting frequencies.Or decent paramteric EQ

4. A limiter. Try Voxengos Elephant. Its the best limiter out there imo

The plugins are just examples you can use anything you like.

With no disrespect intended I can never get the results using Ableton compressors/eq plugins.

If you want to learn more theres a very good mastering tutorial at

http://www.har-bal.com/mastering_process.php

But I dont think our volume problem has anything to do with mastering. I suspect theres something worng somewhere because of what you describe

Obviously set the gains on you rmixer all the same to see ho big the difference is

mobsta · Post by **mobsta** » Tue Aug 02, 2005 11:33 am

what i meant was when you play the cd in winamp or whatever on the computer and output that to the mixer did you go via your usb audio interface like you do when playing the same file via Live?

Yes, and the CD comes out louder than the ableton clip.

jeskola · Post by **jeskola** » Tue Aug 02, 2005 11:50 am

mobsta wrote:Just to clarify,

I am using external players such as technics 1210 turntables, CDJ 1000's through a Pioneer 600 mixer. Ableton is going into the line in/cd input into the back of the mixer and i am using all these devices at once. I have played CDs through the computer to check volume levels and it compares exactly with the external CDJ and vinyl. Increasing the gain obviously disstorts everything as well.

I have increased the level out from my computer (through control panel and audio devices) to their full settings..... this doesnt work either.

Thanks for your advice so far. Any other ideas????

Cheers, Rob.

bizzare i have a very similar setup and all works fine

robin · Post by **robin** » Tue Aug 02, 2005 12:03 pm

mobsta wrote:
what i meant was when you play the cd in winamp or whatever on the computer and output that to the mixer did you go via your usb audio interface like you do when playing the same file via Live?
Yes, and the CD comes out louder than the ableton clip.

hmmm in the prefs in live (go tot the audio tab) are you selecting the right audio driver/system (it's at the top, think...i'm at work on a linux box with no Live in front of me).

otherwise i'm a little stumped by this

do the meters in Live indicate that the signal is passing though ok...

mobsta · Post by **mobsta** » Tue Aug 02, 2005 12:52 pm

Meters are all bouncing at the right points.... i will check the driver but i am sure thats right as i checked it yesterday.

Thanks for your help.

mobsta · Post by **mobsta** » Tue Aug 02, 2005 12:55 pm

Meters are all bouncing at the right points.... i will check the driver but i am sure thats right as i checked it yesterday.

Thanks for your help.