Why this obsession with mixing/mastering quality?

[chris harbin]

Just slam limiters everywhere, it will be fine..........

[MonoTeksist]

I don’t think it’s down to production quality, it’s down to listeners’ preferences and expectations. sure, production quality does play a role (if it’s bad enough to detract from an otherwise great song, that’s gonna be a problem), but it’s not the biggest determining factor, far as I can tell.
if we’re talking about becoming successful as a musician/making music production one’s career, there’s also a hell of a lot of luck involved.
I don’t love the thought that writing a good song isn’t (usually) the most important step in being able to get people to listen to your music, but I’ve been doing this long enough to know that it’s not.

Yes, but aren't most listeners listening to mainstream music, I mean more than 50%-60% at the least? I blame Spotify and radio stations for that.
I don't think "underground" or "peculiar" genres such as Gregorian Chants, Metalstep or Powernoise are genres most people listen to.
And speaking about the latter: I'm willing (hoping!) to believe this particular genre's primary goal is nowhere near having a clean mix.
I could easily give some extreme artist examples: Imminnent Starvation, Converter and The Shizit to name just a few (and then there was GG Allin ...).

And to elaborate on this obsesssion I talked about: I have a book on mixing in which the author proclaims: "You have distortion (in your song) you go to jail." What kind of a mindset is that from a pro-mixing engineer?!

How long HAVE you been making music? This year is my 32nd , but I'm 98% home-schooled. I tried music theory THREE times (just so I could consciously break its rules), but I can't even see the link between music and its theory ... like you play a note and then you cannot play this-or-that one? Mad.

[MonoTeksist]

Nothing at all wrong with your Soundcloud loop, sure sounds good to me. Great work!
I hear you. Today's music atmosphere does seem all about PRODUCTION, PRODUCTION, PRODUCTION, and it is depressing.
But still, Hard Techno is a niche genre within that aforementioned atmosphere. Just consider the Grammys ( is there even a Techno category?)
For me, just a year and a half into the DAW universe, I'm still trying to get rid of the mud. Composing the music is one thing, mixing and mastering is another. There's so much confusing advice out there about m & ming, I'm still struggling to get a decent grip on it.

Cool, thank you!
Uhm I didn't already reply to this post of yours, right?
Well, here I go again if I have.

Yeah, production to me refers more to being consistently productive and churn out tunes on a regular basis.
They should rename The Grammy's to The Granny's imo.

Mixing & mastering is a whole new ball game and could take years to just be "ok" at it. Well, I just don't want to spend time and money doing that.
Sometimes I fluke a good mix and/or master although it's gotten way better than a couple of years ago (ergo my fluke rate increased ). Practice makes (never!) perfect.
I read mud resides around the 250-500Hz range and to also give you a good tip: subtractive eq-ing should be your friend.
And it's good practice to roll-of (who invented this phrase??) everything below around 50Hz on almost everything, except for the kick and bass, using a high-pass filter.

[MonoTeksist]

I make music in all kinds and forms on differend instrumnets systems and ecosystems.
Started as a bassplayer in heavymetel bands, slowly to playing bass in more comercial sounding bands.
Then discovered a fourtrack recorder and got hooked on recording.
I started my study for engineer in 1999 at the SAE in Amsterdam, and finished it in 2001.
At that point I played Bassguitar, Guitar and Keyboards ( a bit) and programmed my own drums.
The things still the same as fourty years ago when I started are: I had no breakthroug and most importend I still have lots of fun making music!
Remember that fun is the most importend factor. If you think that investing on a decent setup and some knowledge will lead to succes, you are wrong.
The music bussiness is a tough world with many things involved before succes comes in.
Better have a good time making and listening to music, instead of forcing your ass in in the music world.
Just be happy en enjoy it all - as for shure this is the best way to spend your time!

You went to SAE eh? 2K Euros when I checked last, NOT cheap!
Did you go solo after your SAE studies?
Are you hinting at the fact that having a pro-engineer degree doesn't auto-lead to fame and fortune?
I myself figured out alomst everything myself but got approached by 2 record labels and was asked for an email interview (that fell through for some reason).
It's also things like rhythym, talent, listening to a LOT of music (different genres even) and blaze your own trail by sounding like no one else that can do wonders.
But everyone knows that to get that elusive record deal you have to know certain people AND be at the right place at the right time.
BUT: YouTube has a VERY sobering video about the music business being one big scam. The actual musician gets paid the least while without him, nothing could've happened! Infuriating ...
And streams are a big waste of ... everything if you think you can get decent money out of that scheme, especially when you're just starting out.
No, the best thing an upcoming musician could do is to NOT get involved with a label and earning way, WAY more than the scraps they end up giving you.
BandCamp is good for this, I'm sure there are others. But again, NO streaming web sites ...

[MonoTeksist]

Just slam limiters everywhere, it will be fine..........

Yes, every song whose wave looks like a solid block is a great song.

[MonoTeksist]

I was being mostly sarcastic/facetious.
Again, as far as mixing, it's an obsession with people, not really a bad thing.

My obsession is listening to a song I thought was finished and thinking: "Hey, what if I added a short fake breakdown here? Or use a pitch shifter for those 2 notes at the end of playing that string sound? Or a vibrato? Or both? Or maybe also use a volume-fade-out? Or how about I use a vocal and volume-automate every single phrase/word? Or turn that arpeggiator on-and-off 20 times? Man I need to add more variation!".

And then you go and grab an aspirine.

[chris harbin]

Just slam limiters everywhere, it will be fine..........

Yes, every song whose wave looks like a solid block is a great song.

TU!

[chris harbin]

I was being mostly sarcastic/facetious.
Again, as far as mixing, it's an obsession with people, not really a bad thing.

My obsession is listening to a song I thought was finished and thinking: "Hey, what if I added a short fake breakdown here? Or use a pitch shifter for those 2 notes at the end of playing that string sound? Or a vibrato? Or both? Or maybe also use a volume-fade-out? Or how about I use a vocal and volume-automate every single phrase/word? Or turn that arpeggiator on-and-off 20 times? Man I need to add more variation!".

And then you go and grab an aspirine.

Speaking of aspirin, OT, my neighbors are "redoing" their front yard. Not only have they been at it with trucks, stereos and blurping since 7am, but so far it looks like butt. Resale value, what resale value. But I digress, yeah, obsession over mixing and mastering (and producin' ) ... it's a concept.

[MonoTeksist]

Speaking of aspirin, OT, my neighbors are "redoing" their front yard. Not only have they been at it with trucks, stereos and blurping since 7am, but so far it looks like butt. Resale value, what resale value. But I digress, yeah, obsession over mixing and mastering (and producin' ) ... it's a concept.

Noisy neighbors, tell me about it. Hammering at 7am on a Sunday, drilling holes at 11pm ... and then the walls over here are so thin I can hear one of them taking a shower in the morning.

Mixing I'll always do myself since that's the most expensive of the two to be done by a pro. As for mastering ... I don't know yet. It IS a hobby and my financials are below-average since I'm an invalid person and I'll never be able to work a regular job again. One week and I'd throw myself off of the Eifel Tower or something.
And the one thing I'm best at (the music-making) I'm not even getting a chance of going freelance because of a bunch of stupid draconian laws over here.
Wanting to contribute to society but being permanently put off-side can get MIGHTILY frustrating on a regular basis.

[chris harbin]

Mastering is NOT up my ally. Those cats that can do it right are their own animal, literally and figuratively.

I'm pretty good at mixing. I have more tools that I need, but it's not a hard concept to me. Levels, a little eq (I'm not overdoing it here peeps) and proper panning, done.

[adamsfan]

I use the special technique of SMASHtering when I'm finished with a song: I just slap a limiter on the Master, get it as loud as I can without distortion, and Voila! It's mastered LOL

[innerstatejt]

I think it's important to get you own music to the point that YOU are happy with how it sounds.

If YOU aren't excited about it, nobody else will be. So If that takes learning more about mixing
& overall production or hiring a pro, that's probably almost always going to be the cost of
admission.

I agree that we have been caught in a loop of not necessarily being focused on writing
the best song anymore. Instead people are writing very similar music to what is already
out there with "better kicks, better sub, cleaner production". It's sad that almost all the
songs in the charts seem to sound the same. It wasn't always like this, but mixing and
production have always been important regardless of style.

I often wonder how a band like the Pixies would go over if they were just coming out today.
I hope that the younger generation still seeks out different musical palettes than what is
force fed on pop radio & I think there is a resurgence coming, so I am optimistic.

I think the best way you can build a fan base with good songs & not worry about
perfect mixing is to play your music live. It's much more forgiving & the energy
and vibe of your music is what people tend to connect to most. Eventually your
production will catch up & you can always go back & re-mix your songs when
you get better production chops.

All this said, it's much harder for electronic producers to get on the radar if their
songs aren't club quality. Most independent producers rely on DJs to play their
music, to help gain a following. If the quality isn't on par with the other tracks a
DJ plays, they simply won't play the track, as it will be extremely noticeable in
a club environment.

I write a lot about mixing and EQing in a way that makes it easy for almost anyone
to understand. One tip I can give is to focus as much as possible on removing
mud from each of your instruments. Typically anything that isn't a Kick or bass
can be improved by removing everything below 120hz. If there is still mud, it
can usually be found between 250hz-650hz.

When it comes to mixing, I like to turn an instrument up a bit too loud, so you
can hear what you're working with & then lower the sound as low as possible
while still having the desired impact. Also good to listen to the other instruments
while doing this to make sure other parts aren't being negatively affected.

I hope this helps someone!