Ableton Forum

It seems quite clear to me that one can create the most brilliantly arranged song, use amazingly fresh sounds and pretty much invent a new music genre ... but if both your mixing and mastering is average-to-good, your song will never get to be "out there".
And the opposite also rings true: there are oh-so many really average-sounding tracks out there using overly-cliched sounds, beats and melodies, but because of the perfect mixing/mastering process they underwent, they grow to become favourite tunes, commercial hits even.

And this equally saddens and angers me. I don't know how to react to this: do you let professional engineers take care of these 2 final steps in song-making (and pay through your teeth in the process) or do you do it yourself by learning the ropes but getting pretty much no exposure at all (since most music fans have been conditioned to hearing perfectly-sounding songs)?

Depressing, that's what it is ...

[edit]
Here is an example of a loop I made years ago. I can't for the life of me know what would be wrong with it, mi/ma-wise.
https://soundcloud.com/monoteksist/mt-b ... said-so-lp

I don’t think it’s down to production quality, it’s down to listeners’ preferences and expectations. sure, production quality does play a role (if it’s bad enough to detract from an otherwise great song, that’s gonna be a problem), but it’s not the biggest determining factor, far as I can tell.

if we’re talking about becoming successful as a musician/making music production one’s career, there’s also a hell of a lot of luck involved.

I don’t love the thought that writing a good song isn’t (usually) the most important step in being able to get people to listen to your music, but I’ve been doing this long enough to know that it’s not.

Nothing at all wrong with your Soundcloud loop, sure sounds good to me. Great work!

I hear you. Today's music atmosphere does seem all about PRODUCTION, PRODUCTION, PRODUCTION, and it is depressing.

But still, Hard Techno is a niche genre within that aforementioned atmosphere. Just consider the Grammys ( is there even a Techno category?)

For me, just a year and a half into the DAW universe, I'm still trying to get rid of the mud. Composing the music is one thing, mixing and mastering is another. There's so much confusing advice out there about m & ming, I'm still struggling to get a decent grip on it.

I make music in all kinds and forms on differend instrumnets systems and ecosystems.
Started as a bassplayer in heavymetel bands, slowly to playing bass in more comercial sounding bands.
Then discovered a fourtrack recorder and got hooked on recording.

I started my study for engineer in 1999 at the SAE in Amsterdam, and finished it in 2001.
At that point I played Bassguitar, Guitar and Keyboards ( a bit) and programmed my own drums.

The things still the same as fourty years ago when I started are: I had no breakthroug and most importend I still have lots of fun making music!

Remember that fun is the most importend factor. If you think that investing on a decent setup and some knowledge will lead to succes, you are wrong.
The music bussiness is a tough world with many things involved before succes comes in.

Better have a good time making and listening to music, instead of forcing your ass in in the music world.

Just be happy en enjoy it all - as for shure this is the best way to spend your time!

miyaru wrote: ↑

Tue Apr 04, 2023 10:04 am

Better have a good time making and listening to music, instead of forcing your ass in in the music world.

Yes Yes Yes

At this point in my musical ambitions, after realizing that perfect PRODUCTION (absolutely perfect mixing & mastering) is just too difficult, confusing, and time-consuming, I have resolved to concentrate on COMPOSITION above all else. THAT is really the important thing for an artist, for self-respect and whatever legacy you might leave.

Sure, just do the best job you can do with production, but the important thing is ALWAYS the music.

Color me weird, but by the time it gets to "streaming service x" it all sounds like butt to me anyways

Seriously, soundcloud in particular, it just sounds so bland and distorted.

SoundCloud is definitely annoying with how much they degrade the audio quality once uploaded. I have clients come back to me all the time asking why their song sounds so much worse there than any other platform, and there’s nothing we can do about it.

Not a thing at all......

For me, it's especially bad when listening to something like Toontrack examples, it's like "man, is it really going to sound that bad?? "

adamsfan wrote: ↑

Wed Apr 05, 2023 9:30 am

PRODUCTION (mixing & mastering)COMPOSITION

I need to have something cleared up once and for all.

All this time, I thought the term "Production" was synonymous with "Mixing and Mastering," but apparently that's wrong.

So "Production" is actually synonymous with "Composition," and "Mixing and Mastering" is its own category, right?

I think it depends on each person how that term is used, there's no hard and fast rules. For me, "production" is all aspect of creating a song, but for others it could be totally different.

Endlessly doing "loops" and creating stuff that sounds just like the last one here

I love it though. But I digress, mixing/mastering.....hmmmm. I guess for me it's getting the lows cut off stuff where things are not so boomy and then adding the excellent "studder" from UAD to the end.

chris harbin wrote: ↑

Sat Apr 15, 2023 7:45 pm

Endlessly doing "loops" and creating stuff that sounds just like the last one here
I love it though. But I digress

You sure do, I've finished at least more than 50 songs so far.
But this is what I mean, the mi/ma-quality is nowhere near even "ok".
In 2000 I didn't even know these 2 things existed due to the technology not being available in my DAW yet (not even VST tech ...), and me stubbornly wanting to learn everything myself.

Sorry for the inconsistent posting, I'm an inconsistent person.
I'll answer to more comments from you guys later.
Mosugu.


PS: I "wasted" lots of time studying various languages (and still do; the word is Japanese for "soon").

I was being mostly sarcastic/facetious.

Again, as far as mixing, it's an obsession with people, not really a bad thing.

I think there can be an appreciation for either element with or without. But they can also just as easily be overlooked or not recognized for their offerings.

There’s a whole lot of brain that determines what people are paying attention to with music. And a great deal of people will quickly disregard things if they are lacking a certain polish to them. It’s just how they are.

Still, there isn’t entirely anything wrong with them having that quality. It’s all art still. For a painting for instance, some painters might be more meticulous about color schemes or detail. Others maybe composition and theme. Some go for classic things and try to match up to those ideologies. Others might try to challenge the expectations. It all just goes on and on everywhere.

On top of all this, there’s also the context of how the music will be listened to. Is it a piece you expect a person to hear in a small spade? Headphones? In a field? Will they listen to music before and after? Only before? Will it be blended in with other tracks? Etc etc.

So an artist, as usual, has to make ‘choices’. Some for themselves, some for the sake of having the medium and message actually come across. Audience could be anyone. And you’d sometimes be surprised which ones actually enjoy.. or dislike.. the music.

At the end mixing is not that big thing, if you have a strict workflow:
1. a preset, for each of your songs (the preset represents a mixing studio - mixer, effects, lines)
2. a tool for calculation (everything is mathematically)
3. an ear or two
4. at least the composition is the most important part.

Cause of point 1 and 2 I started my Stereo Mixing Calculator Tool - for all of us, who don't want to study mixing in to deep.

The main thing you have to know:
- Mixing means adding resonance but not adding extinction
- Reflection keeps an instrument stable in the room (Reverb and Delay)
- Every instrument has its place in the EQ Band
- Compression is your beaty friend
- Plate is a friend too, cause your instrument gets a body

I understand, what you say. My songs 25 years ago sounds the same way.
Muuuuummmpf.

My englisch is far away from being good. But I will try to release an explanation of my approach in the Stereo Mixing Calculator Section.