Tarekith wrote: ↑Mon May 29, 2023 9:16 pm
It’s a massive amount of support and development for an extremely tiny user base, so my vote is slim to none.
One of the reasons I've bought the Push 3 standalone is that it runs Linux. It doesn't have to rely on some Windows or macOS device. It's also not a Macbook or Mac mini with everything soldered to the motherboard and with extremely expensive RAM and storage upgrades. Apple and Microsoft can't barge in to say that the software isn't supported anymore and that it's time to buy a new computer for 2000 more dollars or euros. It depends only on Ableton.
The Push 3 is a device which can be upgraded and have its storage replaced. I understand that Ableton is used to moving money with a virtual shovel. Ableton makes a lot of money thanks to the number of Ableton Live licenses, upgrades from one version to the next and upgrades from the lower tier editions of Live to the more expensive ones.
The Push 3 standalone can be used without having to start a computer. It's a device you use the same as many sequencers, synths and grooveboxes. You turn it on and you use it. You don't have to deal with Microsoft's ads, suggestions, forced restarts and other adware found on Windows systems. You also don't deal with Apple accounts, iCloud/Messages prompts to sign in and what not.
The people at Ableton may also not want to be narrow minded and short-sighted when it comes to this. There's no reason to buy the Push 3 standalone if it remains as limited and unstable. There's also no reason for me to support Ableton at all.
Live Suite 11.2 runs under Wine. I'm able to play back the demo set with 455% CPU usage flawlessly. wineasio would be required to reduce the CPU usage. The UI is extremely responsive. A native version of Live for Linux would be just what we need to ditch Windows and Apple's Mac when using Live.
Live Suite 11.3.2 can't finish the installation under Wine. This is caused by the failure to install the driver for Push 3 during the installation of Live Suite. An option to not install the driver for Push would be great.
A potential lower effort solution would be to address the performance and bugs encountered on Wine. This would be a semi-supported configuration. It'd have warnings for crashes and potential data loss. People would still be able to report crashes.
Supporting a Linux version of Live wouldn't have to be a big deal. There's no need to support one thousand Linux distributions with one million possible configurations. You could distribute Live in a flatpak just like Bitwig does. That's what people usually do to package their apps in a distribution agnostic way.
Does anyone recall Valve Steam Machines experiment? Outsiders may have said that it was a complete and total failure. People didn't buy the hardware because games couldn't be played on those machines. Valve had the hardware and the games to play on the hardware. They lacked the compatibility layer. Outsiders could've said there's no market for Linux based devices for gaming. Valve invested in wine, dxvk, proton, vkd3d, the Linux kernel, KDE Plasma and many other software projects. That's how they got themselves the missing piece of the puzzle. Have you noticed how successful the Steam Deck is now? It also runs plenty of games for it to be taken seriously. Valve has gone ahead and made themselves this market. Outsiders would have simply said there's no market for gaming on Linux.
Ableton's job is much easier. Live is already mostly ported over to Linux for the Push 3 standalone.
yur2die4 wrote: ↑Tue May 30, 2023 12:11 pm
You’re talking about maintaining a closed and deliberately restricted system vs supporting one on a wide open format.
If they strictly released today what they have on Push, but for a computer, but charged the full price of Live (Live outside of Push has a lot more features and functionality, but if it’s a port, it obviously wouldn’t have those features without a lot lot of work), so if ppl paid full Ableton Live price, for just a software version of what’s on currently Standalone Push, they’d get hammered with negative user experiences.
I have bad news for you. They're getting hammered with negative feedback for the Push 3 already. Once you leave the feel good, excited and somewhat irresponsible YouTube reviews behind, you start to see feedback from users who have these devices in their hands. They'll have to implement a lot of features for this Push version of Live and implement missing features in order to deliver a properly functioning product to their customers. They're pretty much forced to do this because they've made it very expensive. The alternative is that they show everyone they just want to grab the money and ignore customers.
The more important components such as the audio engine, midi handling, Max 4 Live, all the devices (synths, simpler, effects) and the other things have been implemented already for the Push 3 standalone. It might not seem like much at first sight based on the current features, due to its limited graphical UI and due to its current stability issues. They've done a significant part of the work already. The parts which are left to be done are related to the UI and other features which aren't yet available.
A Push 3 standalone with a laptop running Linux would be the ideal combination for me. The alternative is to give up on the Push 3 standalone and buy a different controller to use with Bitwig or something else which runs on Linux.