Ableton Push 3 standalone is buggy and crashes

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resequenced
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Ableton Push 3 standalone is buggy and crashes

Post by resequenced » Thu Jun 01, 2023 11:49 am

I've bought the Push 3 standalone with Live Suite. This was my first purchase of any product from Ableton. I only had Ableton Live Lite which came with some hardware I've bought.

I was very excited when the Push 3 standalone arrived. I was looking forward to setting it up and using it to make music.
It took a while for it to boot. It crashed with an error which said the default set has failed to load and Live crashed. This didn't bother me too much at this point. I was aware that the first steps are the installation of the software update and the authorization.

The software update package took a while to download and prepare for installation. The Push 3 standalone rebooted. It told me that the update was complete. The screen went dark. I thought it was booting again to start normally. Instead, it repeated the blank screen to "update is complete" cycle a few more times.

It booted in the end. The Push 3 needs to be on the same network to be able to authorize software on it. This was an inconvenience for me. I did grab an ethernet adapter to put it on the wired network. The wifi network was deactivated. I was able to authorize it.

The Push 3 crashed again several times when loading sets even with the latest software and firmware. This isn't what I expected.

I wanted to try those packs included in the Live Suite license I've paid for. I started to download packs from the "available packs menu" since I already had the ethernet adapter connected via USB. The downloads seemed to be rather slow. This was certainly not putting the high speed Internet connection to good use. It didn't seem to go above 10 MB/s or so, based on how long a 2-3 GB pack took to download.
The "available packs" menu entry disappeared after several pack installations. I thought that I forgot where the menu entry was. I checked the manuals and other materials from Ableton. It was really gone. Was my authorization somehow messed up? No, I checked that as well. I figured out this might be yet another kind of issue fixed with a power cycle.
The "available packs" option returned after a shutdown and a fresh boot. I was able to install packs.

Some cool packs for Max 4 Live are out there. I should try those. The Arduino device from the Connection Kit was one I really wanted to try on the push. I had a nice error on the screen which was being shown as an overlay on top of the analog device. I get it that it's not yet compatible or that it might never be compatible because nobody cares. The error handling and the UI handling don't seem to be working properly.

I gave up on the experiments with Max 4 Live after seeing those errors with a few devices. I went back to playing with Analog and other instruments. Audio stopped working all of a sudden. I thought that the whole device froze at first. The audio settings menu was inaccessible. It was as if it didn't exist at all. I turned the Push 3 off and on again. I had sound again.


Seeing how unstable and buggy this thing was, I decided to test features while I wait for bugs to be sorted out. I tried to add notes of odd lengths. The snapping of the note editor was strange. A note which snapped to 0.0.3 in coarse mode wasn't the same length as an actual note which had a length of 0.0.3. At least this issue wasn't something which took down the device's sound system until it booted again.

I opened some of the demo sets from the packs. I hit play on the left side. Some sets would play. Others would play only when some clips were triggered in the session view. I had the impression that this was a bug at first. It occurred to me that the sets which played when the play button was hit were sets put together in arrangement mode. The session view of Push 3 standalone was all but worthless for such sets. This makes the Push 3 standalone experience a very poor one.


I filed a ticket on Sunday to report the issues which were bugs to Ableton. The crash logs were included. I had a fully charged battery at that point. I turned the device on yesterday evening to check if there are any updates. It had only 88% battery available when it booted and when I shut it off again.

The device had 85% battery this morning. The battery went to 80% after 2-3 minutes had passed from the moment it booted. I haven't played a single note or clip. The power management seems to be broken. It's that, the software burning CPU cycles for no good reason, the battery is faulty or a combination of these issues.

Class compliant USB audio devices don't seem to work with Push 3 standalone either. It's a Linux based OS running on regular x86_64 Intel i3 11th gen CPU which is on a small compute module. What's making it difficult to support audio over USB? Even this Push 3 standalone can be used as an audio interface.

Ableton support hasn't replied. Nobody from Ableton is answering. I've tried to reach out to contact@ableton.com earlier. This got me a new ticket.

What about Ableton Live on the PC? I told myself I could learn that while I wait for the standalone mode thing to be fixed.

Ableton Live Suite's window has that white overlay unresponsive apps have for a while on startup. It seems slow. It has some weird behavior when it comes to audio and midi. I'm not sure what happened to Live or why it's so buggy. I notice it stutter or not working. It seems to recover. Audio stopped working for a clip in session view. I was able to try a few features and instruments. It wasn't like this when I was using Live Lite.

I decided that I'm not going to authorize Live Suite on my PC. I might request a return and a refund for Push 3 standalone and Live Suite based on the experience I had. I wouldn't want Ableton to say I've got Live Suite authorized somewhere and they can't process the refund due to that reason.


The experience I've had makes me see Ableton Push 3 standalone as an unfinished and overpriced product. The NUC element compute with an i3 11th gen and 8GB of RAM costs about 280 euros for end users, not large scale manufacturers with steep discounts. The upgrade from Push 3 to Push 3 standalone is 1000 euros. The battery, the SSD and the heatsink aren't worth the difference. Nobody can argue that the software also costs money because it's something paid separately. The hardware is sold with the basic license of the software in the base price of 1899 euros.

The combination of hardware which costs 1899 euros and the software which costs 449 euros now isn't worth it. It's too buggy at this point. It's not what I expect from a hardware device which costs 1899 euros. Ableton Live Suite 11.3.2 is also not performing as I'd expect from a software which costs 449 euros with a discount.

This was my first purchase from Ableton. It's likely to be my last one. I'll probably return and refund it. It really depends on Ableton's support and if they fix the products in a timely manner or not.

Tarekith
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Re: Ableton Push 3 standalone is buggy and crashes

Post by Tarekith » Thu Jun 01, 2023 2:07 pm

Did you update Push to v1.1? Sounds like maybe you’re still running v1.0 which was extremely buggy.
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resequenced
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Re: Ableton Push 3 standalone is buggy and crashes

Post by resequenced » Thu Jun 01, 2023 2:17 pm

Tarekith wrote:
Thu Jun 01, 2023 2:07 pm
Did you update Push to v1.1? Sounds like maybe you’re still running v1.0 which was extremely buggy.
Yes, the software UI displays Push 1.1 with firmware 1.0.68 and live 11.3.2.

kreativsein
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Re: Ableton Push 3 standalone is buggy and crashes

Post by kreativsein » Thu Jun 01, 2023 2:20 pm

for me the same, it feels very unstable. i made a set file on deskto (collect the files) transfer it to push and now most samples of the audio tracks are "offline" :D dont get it :P

resequenced
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Re: Ableton Push 3 standalone is buggy and crashes

Post by resequenced » Thu Jun 01, 2023 3:00 pm

I've uploaded a cropped photo of the software versions present on my Push 3 standalone.
https://imgur.com/a/2LDGAfP

If there was some kind of issue during the update or some inconsistency between what's running and the shown versions, that's all Ableton's responsibility.
I've followed the instructions.

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Re: Ableton Push 3 standalone is buggy and crashes

Post by [jur] » Thu Jun 01, 2023 3:47 pm

Thanks for this very valuable feedback.
Most of the issues you described are already filled.
Let's hope fixes are coming soon.
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bobbyduracel
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Re: Ableton Push 3 standalone is buggy and crashes

Post by bobbyduracel » Sat Jun 03, 2023 2:06 am

That’s unfortunate! Sorry to hear it :/

I am on a 400mb/sec connection and the update process was smooth. I installed all but one expansion with no hiccups. Now “retro synths” is taking hours to download.

Otherwise no issues, but I haven’t yet imported a live set from my computer. That’s the next test.
#livefullycharged

resequenced
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Re: Ableton Push 3 standalone is buggy and crashes

Post by resequenced » Sat Jun 03, 2023 9:29 am

[jur] wrote:
Thu Jun 01, 2023 3:47 pm
Thanks for this very valuable feedback.
Most of the issues you described are already filled.
Let's hope fixes are coming soon.
I've provided more feedback on the support ticket I've opened. The feedback includes a list of bugs and issues. I've also recommended several improvements which Ableton can make to the Push 3's software and to the NUC compute element's configuration to make this a more stable product.

These mostly include improvements which just address stability and performance issues. They're not about missing functionality.

Ableton's support team is very likely dealing with a lot of tickets right now. I've spent some time looking at the logs on my own while I wait for them to do something to help. There are some bugs to address and improvements to make.

Given the price tag of the product, I expect it to be rock solid and to have the missing functionality added. Who wants a product with the label standalone meant to be used for live performances which crashes and still needs a laptop to finish a track?

It'd be great to see the missing functionality added to the Push 3. This includes an arrangement view, being able to put together instrument racks on the Push 3 (to modify them, save them and so on), to do midi mapping, automation, moving clips around, better Max 4 Live compatibility and other things I haven't even run into yet.

I was surprised to see that creating instrument racks doesn't appear to be supported on the Push 3. This and other missing functionality downgrade it from a standalone unit to something which requires a workflow similar to the following:
  • put together the instrument racks and everything on the computer (PC or Mac)
  • export the samples, the instruments racks, all relevant presets and what not to the Push 3 standalone
  • create clips, record a live performance and vocals on the Push 3
  • use the session view on the Push 3 to prepare a starting point for the final arrangement
  • take the live set to the computer, use any additional plugins (VSTs, AUs for synths and effects), and finish the track there
  • take audio clips back to the Push 3 for potential live performance
It appears to require a computer anyway. The 1000 euros or dollars difference paid to upgrade from the Push 3 controller to the standalone would be better spent on a powerful laptop or a small computer. The computer will be required for anyone who wants to finish tracks.
bobbyduracel wrote:
Sat Jun 03, 2023 2:06 am
That’s unfortunate! Sorry to hear it :/

I am on a 400mb/sec connection and the update process was smooth. I installed all but one expansion with no hiccups. Now “retro synths” is taking hours to download.

Otherwise no issues, but I haven’t yet imported a live set from my computer. That’s the next test.
My connection is faster. Your experience is just like mine. Small packs were downloaded quickly The Push 3 standalone was connected to the wired gigabit network with a gigabit USB 3.0 ethernet adapter. The bigger packs took a while to download. Having them decompressed and moved to their final location on the SSD also took quite some time.

The product really needs a lot of work. My experience isn't even the worst. I've seen posts here and one YouTube video about Push 3 standalone units which appear to be bricked. At least I get to play with the Push 3 standalone a bit to figure out if it's worth keeping for me or if it's too limited.

TheEntireRobot
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Re: Ableton Push 3 standalone is buggy and crashes

Post by TheEntireRobot » Sat Jun 03, 2023 4:09 pm

I'm having a lot of weird crashes and other issues that are preventing me from doing anything with the Push 3, sadly. It's too bad, because this is my first experience with Ableton, and it's a bit frustrating. Hopefully their support will help me resolve them!

Either way, I have no idea how long it's going to take before I can actually start evaluating Push, but I know there's only a 30 day return window. Hopefully things will be resolved with time to spare, because I really need to make sure I can evaluate Push properly.

102455
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Re: Ableton Push 3 standalone is buggy and crashes

Post by 102455 » Sat Jun 03, 2023 9:01 pm

resequenced wrote:
Sat Jun 03, 2023 9:29 am
a gigabit USB 3.0 ethernet adapter
Would you mind providing details of the make and model number?

resequenced
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Re: Ableton Push 3 standalone is buggy and crashes

Post by resequenced » Sun Jun 04, 2023 11:30 am

102455 wrote:
Sat Jun 03, 2023 9:01 pm
resequenced wrote:
Sat Jun 03, 2023 9:29 am
a gigabit USB 3.0 ethernet adapter
Would you mind providing details of the make and model number?
The one I'm using is TP-link UE300. Ethernet adapters should work with the Push 3 standalone If they work with Ubuntu 22.04. The Push 3 is running the same Linux kernel 5.15. If the same drivers are enabled by Ableton in the Push 3's Linux kernel as they are on Ubuntu 22.04, the ethernet USB adapters which work on Ubuntu 22.04 should work on the Push 3.

The common realtek based gigabit USB adapters should work. The 2.5gbps ones may be too recent. Their drivers may not be included in the Linux kernel or the drivers may not be enabled by default.

Please keep in mind that there are multiple versions of this tp-link adaper out there. I've only tested one.
Last edited by resequenced on Mon Jun 05, 2023 8:35 am, edited 1 time in total.

102455
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Re: Ableton Push 3 standalone is buggy and crashes

Post by 102455 » Sun Jun 04, 2023 3:00 pm

Thanks! Order placed.

jiggle
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Re: Ableton Push 3 standalone is buggy and crashes

Post by jiggle » Sun Jun 04, 2023 4:19 pm

I ordered one aswell :) I have some that dont work with it so fingers crossed. Thank you resequenced

resequenced
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Re: Ableton Push 3 standalone is buggy and crashes

Post by resequenced » Sun Jun 04, 2023 6:54 pm

There are several versions of this device out there. Please post what version you've received and if it worked for you or not.

The version I have doesn't have a version written on it. It might be the first one.

102455
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Re: Ableton Push 3 standalone is buggy and crashes

Post by 102455 » Mon Jun 05, 2023 4:56 pm

Mine's arrived. I took a pic of the box but seems we can't upload here, so generic pic from Google:

Image

The labels on the box and the unit itself (inside the recessed part) say it's a UE300 (UN) Ver: 4.0

Turned off the Wi-Fi on the Push, connected the UE300 and proceeded to successfully update the conveniently available firmware to 1.1.1

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