Push 3 standalone crashes when loading Drift instruments

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TheEntireRobot
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Push 3 standalone crashes when loading Drift instruments

Post by TheEntireRobot » Fri Jun 02, 2023 9:30 pm

Does anyone else's Push 3 standalone crash when loading Drift instruments?

This is all I need to do to reproduce:

1. Power on Push 3
2. If asked, tell it "No" do not recover your work when starting up
2. Press the + button to add a device to track 1
3. Choose any Drift instrument with the Jog Wheel and select it by pressing the Jog Wheel button
4. Press the Swap button
5. Choose a different Drift instrument with the Jog Wheel and select it by pressing the Jog Wheel button
6. Repeat step 5 a few times

After a few times of doing this, the "Loading <Instrument Name>..." text never goes away, and Push is completely unresponsive. At this point, if I hold down the power button, I see the "Do you want to turn Push off now?" text, but it's _behind_ the Loading text. At least selecting Turn Off works.

One other thing I've noticed is that usually the instrument that I load right before the one that causes Push to crash takes noticeably longer to load. Also, I believe I've seen this crash happen when adding a Drift instrument to a new MIDI track, but I can't reliably reproduce it.

Here are a few instruments that have I've seen cause the unit to crash in this way, but I don't know that this is specific to any instruments:
* Body Bass
* Hammer Bass

I'm going to file a support ticket.

[jur]
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Re: Push 3 standalone crashes when loading Drift instruments

Post by [jur] » Fri Jun 02, 2023 10:30 pm

I can't reproduce.
Did you update to v1.1?
Are you able to reproduce in a new empty default set, or is it happening in sets where you have other stuff?
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TheEntireRobot
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Re: Push 3 standalone crashes when loading Drift instruments

Post by TheEntireRobot » Sat Jun 03, 2023 5:13 am

Yep, I'm on 1.1. I'm doing this:

1. Power on Push 3
2. If asked, tell it "No" do not recover your work when starting up

Does that give me a new empty default set? I see 2 MIDI and 2 Audio tracks with no devices or clips.

TheEntireRobot
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Re: Push 3 standalone crashes when loading Drift instruments

Post by TheEntireRobot » Sat Jun 03, 2023 5:21 am

Also, separately, the very first time I turned on Push, I saw the "Live unexpectedly quit [...]. Would you like to recover your work?" screen, which was a bit disconcerting. Not exactly what you want to see when you first power on a brand new $2000 piece of gear.

I had actually forgotten about this, but when I downloaded the crash log zip file to report the crash issues I was having with Drift instruments, I saw these two crash reports, in addition to the 15 others with dates on or after the day I received the unit, in the zip file:

data\Crashes\Ableton Push3 Crash Report 2023-01-15 042509.zip
data\Crashes\Ableton Push3 Crash Report 2023-01-15 042532.zip (this file is actually 0 KB)

Is this normal? Is there anything I can do to do a diagnostic on the unit? I'm going to try a factory reset, though.

resequenced
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Re: Push 3 standalone crashes when loading Drift instruments

Post by resequenced » Sat Jun 03, 2023 8:49 am

TheEntireRobot wrote:
Sat Jun 03, 2023 5:21 am
Also, separately, the very first time I turned on Push, I saw the "Live unexpectedly quit [...]. Would you like to recover your work?" screen, which was a bit disconcerting. Not exactly what you want to see when you first power on a brand new $2000 piece of gear.

I had actually forgotten about this, but when I downloaded the crash log zip file to report the crash issues I was having with Drift instruments, I saw these two crash reports, in addition to the 15 others with dates on or after the day I received the unit, in the zip file:

data\Crashes\Ableton Push3 Crash Report 2023-01-15 042509.zip
data\Crashes\Ableton Push3 Crash Report 2023-01-15 042532.zip (this file is actually 0 KB)

Is this normal? Is there anything I can do to do a diagnostic on the unit? I'm going to try a factory reset, though.
Disclaimer: I'm a customer just as you are. I'm not in any way associated with Ableton.

My Ableton Push 3 standalone had the exact same issue with the dates in the crash logs.
It was able to use NTP to set its time and date.

Here's what I have in some of my crash logs:
Jan 13 **:34:39 push daemon.info connmand[551]: ntp: adjust (jump): +11460510.776865 sec
May 2* **:03:11 push user.err Push3: Next update version failed: Client request for next version failed: Connection

I've run into the same issue with Live crashing on startup when loading the default set. It stopped doing that after several cold boots. The software needs work, both to fix bugs and to add missing functionality.

I also agree with you that this is a poor experience with such expensive hardware and software. Not only is it missing a lot of functionality, it's also crashing and it's unstable. I'd argue that the Push 3 standalone isn't worth the amount of money paid to bump it from the Push 3 controller.

I've got a ticket in which I reported the issues I've encountered and several improvements Ableton may want to make just to improve the stability of the Push 3 standalone. This includes changes to be made to the configuration of the NUC compute element and changes to be made to the Linux OS running on the Push 3 standalone.

TheEntireRobot
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Re: Push 3 standalone crashes when loading Drift instruments

Post by TheEntireRobot » Sat Jun 03, 2023 2:16 pm

FWIW, I've recorded a video and sent it to them. I actually have 3 separate "I can't even use this thing" open tickets at the moment along with a "How am I supposed to properly evaluate this thing when the trial won't work on it standalone" open ticket.

All the people I know are like, "Thanks for solving my GAS problem"

no_barcode
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Re: Push 3 standalone crashes when loading Drift instruments

Post by no_barcode » Sat Jun 03, 2023 3:39 pm

I had the same "Live unexpectedly quit..." issue when I first powered on my new Push 3. I updated to the latest firmware version, but after that I then went back into the Settings menu, went to the Software section, held down the Shift button and pressed the Reset Push option in the top right. When my Push 3 came back, I got the expected "Intro" stuff where is welcomes you and tells you "First let's set up your Wifi" or whatever. It did not do this when I first took it out of the box, so my initial experience did not match the videos Ableton has posted. But again, after updating the firmware and then doing a factory reset, things seem to match what is expected based on the videos on ableton.com.

Maybe there's some configs somewhere that are not set correctly -- like maybe a bad image was used or something? Or maybe some incompatible config data is left behind after updating and doing a reset after the update corrects that? I have no idea. But you could try a factory reset now that you're on the latest firmware.

FYI: I'm not able to reproduce your issue either. I've loaded every Drift patch one after another, gone back and loaded them randomly as quickly as I can (using Swap, like you), and also switched between the trouble presets you mentioned and back to others, and then back again. No issues so far.
M1 Max 64GB RAM 4TB SSD; Volt 1; Push 3 Standalone

TheEntireRobot
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Re: Push 3 standalone crashes when loading Drift instruments

Post by TheEntireRobot » Sat Jun 03, 2023 3:51 pm

I've done multiple factory resets. Check this video out:
https://youtu.be/I6Q8BFyEpOI

I'm also having other issues (all of which I've reported) like:

Sliding on a pad triggers other pads:
https://youtu.be/T4aPtQR41Cc

Touch strip is freaking out:
https://youtu.be/1xViWPKWQMU

Maybe I'm having a hardware issue, I don't know.

no_barcode
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Re: Push 3 standalone crashes when loading Drift instruments

Post by no_barcode » Sat Jun 03, 2023 4:16 pm

Okay, that did it! That's both good news and bad news, I guess. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I6Q8BFyEpOI)

Loading 808 Drifter, swapping to 808 Pure, then to Body Bass locks up my Push 3 as well.
M1 Max 64GB RAM 4TB SSD; Volt 1; Push 3 Standalone

no_barcode
Posts: 282
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Location: Minneapolis

Re: Push 3 standalone crashes when loading Drift instruments

Post by no_barcode » Sat Jun 03, 2023 4:42 pm

I don't know what's going on with your pads and touch strip. You don't have anything metal under or near your push, in/on your hand, or anything like that do you? For example, if I set a lens wipe packet above the touch strip, it gets stuck at the top. (it's not even on the touch strip) It looks like a paper packet, but has foil inside. (just as a weird example)

I think I read that the pads are capacitive (under the rubber) so it works like a touch screen and could respond poorly if there's metal nearby. (or liquids -- pretty much anything that's conductive) I don't seen any rings on your hand (which would normally be far enough away to not cause an issue anyway, but you never know)

Seems like these two issues are probably hardware related. I'm trying to reproduce them, but haven't been able to. Were there more steps to get to this point, or not? I assume not, since the pad issue on your Push 3 is happening on the welcome screen.
M1 Max 64GB RAM 4TB SSD; Volt 1; Push 3 Standalone

TheEntireRobot
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Re: Push 3 standalone crashes when loading Drift instruments

Post by TheEntireRobot » Sat Jun 03, 2023 4:47 pm

I mean, the Push is on a Samson LTS50 stand which is metal, but I don't wear rings and there's nothing near the Push. Just the power cable and one audio output cable.

no_barcode
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Re: Push 3 standalone crashes when loading Drift instruments

Post by no_barcode » Sat Jun 03, 2023 4:57 pm

Okay. It could be some sort of calibration issue and maybe there's a secret screen to fix it. But the behavior is very suspicious. I could also imagine something like metal shavings getting embedded in between the case and interface during assembly (or something along those lines) and then ending up with this problem.

If it were me, I'd be setting up a return.
M1 Max 64GB RAM 4TB SSD; Volt 1; Push 3 Standalone

[jur]
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Re: Push 3 standalone crashes when loading Drift instruments

Post by [jur] » Sat Jun 03, 2023 5:08 pm

TheEntireRobot wrote:
Sat Jun 03, 2023 3:51 pm
Sliding on a pad triggers other pads:
https://youtu.be/T4aPtQR41Cc

Touch strip is freaking out:
https://youtu.be/1xViWPKWQMU

Maybe I'm having a hardware issue, I don't know.
Looks like HW issues I'm afraid.
There used to have some "sliding triggers other pads" at some point during beta testing but that would only trigger the above pad when reaching the top of the one you're sliding on, only with certain pads, and not always the same ones. But it's been refined and correctly calibrated, so I doubt this is what's happening in your case.

Unlike you I really dig the sound the artifacts the PB add to your electric piano, but this touchstrip is definitely acting crazy.
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no_barcode
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Re: Push 3 standalone crashes when loading Drift instruments

Post by no_barcode » Sat Jun 03, 2023 5:16 pm

[jur] wrote:
Sat Jun 03, 2023 5:08 pm
...
Unlike you I really dig the sound the artifacts the PB add to your electric piano, but this touchstrip is definitely acting crazy.
After TheEntireRobot get's a new Push 3, I'm going to build a Max4Live device that mimics this behavior so he can have it whenever he wants.
M1 Max 64GB RAM 4TB SSD; Volt 1; Push 3 Standalone

TheEntireRobot
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Re: Push 3 standalone crashes when loading Drift instruments

Post by TheEntireRobot » Sat Jun 03, 2023 9:30 pm

Well, I have open tickets for all of these things, I'm just waiting for someone to get back to me.

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