Intel is shutting down NUC

[Audivit]

I wish people understood this very point.
It's a mess for ableton.

I don't think is that severe, I believe Intel will produce 12th gen Elements until 2025 and 13th gen Elements until Q2 of 2026, and those modules are enough to give the Push a huge boost in terms of processing power.

Also I'm not sure but from my research it seems that there might be a 14th gen due to be announced, in which case we should be good for a few more years..

To me this only means that maybe Push 3 is not going to have the extra long life-span they hoped for but assuming all this above is the case, is not going to be a big deal.

[dcjams]

I wish people understood this very point.
It's a mess for ableton.

I don't think is that severe, I believe Intel will produce 12th gen Elements until 2025 and 13th gen Elements until Q2 of 2026, and those modules are enough to give the Push a huge boost in terms of processing power.

To me this only means that maybe Push 3 is not going to have the long life-span they hoped for...

And it doesn't even necessarily mean that. Push 3 controller is obviously unaffected, if that's the platform you stay with. Push 2's life span was 8 years. By the time a 13th gen NUC is looking a bit long in the tooth, we'll be well into the second half of Push 3's life cycle. The SSD will always be upgradeable. Presumably the RAM is integrated into the NUC, so that and processor speed will top out at 13th gen. Can you overclock a NUC?

It's something to consider for Ableton and customers alike, but it's not a disaster.

[Audivit]

Push 3 controller is obviously unaffected, if that's the platform you stay with.

I don't think that people who bought the Standalone did so to eventually stay with the controller platform.

[dcjams]

Push 3 controller is obviously unaffected, if that's the platform you stay with.

I don't think that people who bought the Standalone did so to eventually stay with the controller platform.

That's not what I meant. I meant if you buy into Push 3 with no interest in the standalone possibilities then you wouldn't care about the lack of an upgrade.

[Audivit]

That's not what I meant. I meant if you buy into Push 3 with no interest in the standalone possibilities then you wouldn't care about the lack of an upgrade.

That seems pretty obvious to me, but this discussion is clearly for people who do care about upgradeability and have invested in that standalone platform.

[dcjams]

That's not what I meant. I meant if you buy into Push 3 with no interest in the standalone possibilities then you wouldn't care about the lack of an upgrade.

That seems pretty obvious to me, but this discussion is clearly for people who do care about upgradeability and have invested in that standalone platform.

You referred to Push 3's longevity overall, not specifically standalone, I was ... oh whatever

[timerickson]

If Ableton wants to use a different CPU, they just send you a different enclosure. CPU's fit into a socket, and that socket is a standard. The current chip fits into a FCBGA1449 socket. With that same socket, you can put all sorts of CPU's into that socket, up to a i7-1195G7. NUC has nothing at all to do with it, it's just CPU's. And if they want to go with a whole different CPU family with a different socket type, they just send you a new enclosure that supports it...that's their whole upgrade plan anyway to future CPU's. You aren't swapping CPU's yourself when you upgrade, you are getting a new enclosure with all of that manufactured by Ableton's supplier.

There's so many details in here just entirely wrong. The compute element CPU is NOT socketed, it's soldered. It cannot be replaced with a different CPU. Compute Element boards are half motherboards with soldered CPU, soldered RAM and PCH. The "300-pin connector for the NUC Compute Element that includes power, I/O ports, storage, and other peripheral options to allow the NUC Compute Element to function."

The entire Push 3 was designed around this 300 pin connector. It is NOT as simple as "sending a new enclosure". They would need to entirely redesign the internals.

[timerickson]

Right, but the carrier board that houses that "stuff" is a standard. And it's a published standard. Any manufacturer can build to that specification.

For example:
https://www.intel.com/content/dam/suppo ... erview.pdf

They can source that board from whatever manufacturer that they want and into their own enclosure that is already custom interfaced into the Push 3. There are already other companies doing this, creating their own "compute elements", which is the whole reason Intel is stepping out of the business.

This is also wrong. While other brands have created 4x4 mini computers, Intel is the only one creating Compute Elements using their 300-pin connector design. The PDF you reference describes the process for creating a carrier board for the Compute Element to connect to via the 300-pin socket. This is the process Ableton would have followed to design their main PCB to accept the Compute Element and extend it with storage, wifi, USB, etc. Nothing provided in that PDF describes how to clone the Compute Element itself. It's certainly not a published standard. It's proprietary.

[timerickson]

It’d still be an Intel chip. It’s just the gubbins around it that would be third-party and as said previously, there are already plenty of established manufacturers.

There are not, this is wrong. Intel is the only mfr of Compute Elements.

[timerickson]

We don't even know if the board inside the Push 3 will support 12th and 13th gen Element modules,

My understanding is it should. The PCH is on the Compute Element, and the pin-out hasnt changed.

[drez]

It’d still be an Intel chip. It’s just the gubbins around it that would be third-party and as said previously, there are already plenty of established manufacturers.

There are not, this is wrong. Intel is the only mfr of Compute Elements.

Intel is moving out of the business of creating Compute Elements and this will be picked up by its partners that actually create the compute elements. They've already said this is the route they are taking. Go look at the myriad of articles about it. Intel actually WANTS their partners to pick this up and run with it, and they will because there's already business to be had. Intel is just streamlining their business units. This does not mean the "NUC Compute Element" will never be produced again. It will be, just not by Intel.

[drez]

If Ableton wants to use a different CPU, they just send you a different enclosure. CPU's fit into a socket, and that socket is a standard. The current chip fits into a FCBGA1449 socket. With that same socket, you can put all sorts of CPU's into that socket, up to a i7-1195G7. NUC has nothing at all to do with it, it's just CPU's. And if they want to go with a whole different CPU family with a different socket type, they just send you a new enclosure that supports it...that's their whole upgrade plan anyway to future CPU's. You aren't swapping CPU's yourself when you upgrade, you are getting a new enclosure with all of that manufactured by Ableton's supplier.

There's so many details in here just entirely wrong. The compute element CPU is NOT socketed, it's soldered. It cannot be replaced with a different CPU. Compute Element boards are half motherboards with soldered CPU, soldered RAM and PCH. The "300-pin connector for the NUC Compute Element that includes power, I/O ports, storage, and other peripheral options to allow the NUC Compute Element to function."

The entire Push 3 was designed around this 300 pin connector. It is NOT as simple as "sending a new enclosure". They would need to entirely redesign the internals.

Of course they aren't going to "put a different chip into an existing Compute Element". They will give you "a new compute element". That's the whole Ableton upgrade process even if Intel WAS to continue making Compute Elements for 100 years. Genuine question, what do you think is being replaced when you "upgrade" the Push3 Standalone?

Why would new compute elements from another company NOT use that 300pin standard?

[vertgrall]

If Ableton wants to use a different CPU, they just send you a different enclosure. CPU's fit into a socket, and that socket is a standard. The current chip fits into a FCBGA1449 socket. With that same socket, you can put all sorts of CPU's into that socket, up to a i7-1195G7. NUC has nothing at all to do with it, it's just CPU's. And if they want to go with a whole different CPU family with a different socket type, they just send you a new enclosure that supports it...that's their whole upgrade plan anyway to future CPU's. You aren't swapping CPU's yourself when you upgrade, you are getting a new enclosure with all of that manufactured by Ableton's supplier.

There's so many details in here just entirely wrong. The compute element CPU is NOT socketed, it's soldered. It cannot be replaced with a different CPU. Compute Element boards are half motherboards with soldered CPU, soldered RAM and PCH. The "300-pin connector for the NUC Compute Element that includes power, I/O ports, storage, and other peripheral options to allow the NUC Compute Element to function."

The entire Push 3 was designed around this 300 pin connector. It is NOT as simple as "sending a new enclosure". They would need to entirely redesign the internals.

Of course they aren't going to "put a different chip into an existing Compute Element". They will give you "a new compute element". That's the whole Ableton upgrade process even if Intel WAS to continue making Compute Elements for 100 years. Genuine question, what do you think is being replaced when you "upgrade" the Push3 Standalone?

Why would new compute elements from another company NOT use that 300pin standard?

Better question is how come Ableton won't publicly address this?

[drez]

Better question is how come Ableton won't publicly address this?

Probably because they aren't concerned and already have a plan in place

[Audivit]

Better question is how come Ableton won't publicly address this?

Probably because they aren't concerned and already have a plan in place

Concerned or not, it would be nice if they show some common sense to their customers by at least informing them.