Using Push 3 MPE/Poly AT with non MPE plugins

[greenscreens]

I was wondering if there is a clean way of working with a non MPE device with the Push 3.

I understand that you have to create 8-16 midi tracks (as mono channels) with each track on a different midi channel to achieve polyphony.

Is there a way to do this with instrument racks? I'm just wondering if there is a way to do this cleanly/simply.

for example if there was a way to save this as a preset it would save a lot of time.

Are there settings on the Push 3 that are required for it to switch midi channels on each new note?

(The linnstrument/seaboard had its own setting to achieve this)

[[jur]]

Unless you want to send this to an external synth, every Live synth (except for Operator) is now MPE.

[Pitch Black]

Would love to know the answer to this as well. I have some custom instrument racks with a combination of Samplers and Kontakt instruments that I’d love to get per-note modulation happening on.

Can anybody please point us to a methodology for achieving this?

[[jur]]

Oh, you're not talking Standalone here, right?

[Pitch Black]

Oh, you're not talking Standalone here, right?

I wasn't I can't speak for greenscreens

Is there a methodology of splitting the incoming MIDI into a set of control signals that (multiple in tracks? / multiple in racks?) Non-MPE / non-polyphonic aftertouch instruments can receive on a per note basis.

Use case: I have a Kontakt instrument that does great things when I push the modwheel up. I'd like to convert poly pressure from Push 3 (Controller version) into CC1 mod messages that will affect Kontakt(s?) on a per-note basis: I press harder on an individual Push pad, and it's like sending CC1 modwheel to that note only.

Is there a way of racking them up, or track-stacking them up, plus some MIDI processing trickery that can do this?

[rg01A]

Oh, you're not talking Standalone here, right?

I wasn't I can't speak for greenscreens

Is there a methodology of splitting the incoming MIDI into a set of control signals that (multiple in tracks? / multiple in racks?) Non-MPE / non-polyphonic aftertouch instruments can receive on a per note basis.

Use case: I have a Kontakt instrument that does great things when I push the modwheel up. I'd like to convert poly pressure from Push 3 (Controller version) into CC1 mod messages that will affect Kontakt(s?) on a per-note basis: I press harder on an individual Push pad, and it's like sending CC1 modwheel to that note only.

Is there a way of racking them up, or track-stacking them up, plus some MIDI processing trickery that can do this?

You can maybe achieve your goals with some combination of the Expression Control and MPE Control MIDI effect devices and an instrument rack or two. I think MPE Poly Pressure is imprecisely referred to as "Aftertouch" in the source options of the Expression Control device, but you can use that device to directly map pressure, slide, and pitchbend (among other things) to modify selected parameters.

[greenscreens]

this is specifically for push 3 midi controller, with 3rd party plugins that are not yet MPE.

when I had a Linnstrument, I could create mono midi tracks for every polyphonic note and set each midi track to a different midi channel. but I was wondering if there was a more tidy way of doing this with instrument racks. otherwise it takes up a huge amount of screen real estate in a session.

I'm not even sure if the Push 3 is able to do this where each new note will be sent on a new midi channel, like the setting that is available on the LInnstrument.

does a max for live midi channel splitter exist that can send pitchbend and aftertouch information for each successive note?

Does anyone have any experience with this?

[greenscreens]

Oh, you're not talking Standalone here, right?

no im not talking about standalone or live built in instruments, 3rd party plugins

[cherryblossom]

Did anybody find a solution for this? I think some MPE control of non-MPE instruments can be achieved with the "Expression Control" MIDI Effect, but it is not applied on a per-note basis. This MIDI Effect monitors velocity, slide, and aftertouch. But not release velocity or glide? https://www.ableton.com/en/manual/max-f ... on-control

Is this the best way to control non-MPE instruments now? Did someone find a way to adjust individual notes of an instrument, rather than all active sounds? So you could modulate the pitch of one note with slide movement, while other active notes of the instrument are not affected?

[elbows]

Is this the best way to control non-MPE instruments now? Did someone find a way to adjust individual notes of an instrument, rather than all active sounds? So you could modulate the pitch of one note with slide movement, while other active notes of the instrument are not affected?

The ability to control individual notes in those ways is why MPE came to exist in the first place. Theres not another way round it other than creating multiple instances of instruments and then only using each instance to play a single voice, and the main question on this thread is just about how to achieve that in a tidier fashion within Ableton.

Long term both MIDI 2.0 per note expression stuff and support for per-note expression within certain plugin formats (eg VST3, CLAP) may gradually render the MPE way of doing things obsolete, but will still require work by both the DAW and plugin instrument developers to get working, so wont offer a seamless solution in the early years even if it all catches on, it will just be what comes after MPE.

I'll reply again with my own take on the tidiest multi-plugin-instance solutions in Live at some point in the coming days.

[elbows]

To answer the original question, to the best of my knowledge (which might have gaps in it) you will be pretty much stuck with the same options as people used to have to use back in the days when Live didnt natively support MPE at all. Tedious, messy stuff with caveats that mean its often not worth bothering with. And instruments that dont really know about MPE will tend to have other limitations, eg their maximum pitch bend range will often be far smaller than people are used to when using instruments in proper MPE modes.

Someone did write a plugin called 'MPEfy' in the past, which aimed to really help with this stuff. It took care of instancing other soft synths within it, setting up control curves and probably sorting out pitch bend range limitations too. However it hasnt been updated since 2022, its expensive, and last time I tried it I couldnt actually get it to work. But I think its still out there, with a trial version available, if anyone really wants to try (and Im not sure at all what the reasons were that I couldnt get it working myself).