Push 3 Standalone RTP MIDI

[joewheela]

Hello Ableton H*I*V*E*M*I*N*D,

Is there anyway to get Push 3 use RTP/Network MIDI in standalone mode? I use a MioXL for all my midi routing, in controller mode, Ableton works great with RTP for MIDI I/O. But sadly, the option is not available in standalone mode.

It would be real nice to sit on the couch and play hardware instruments over WiFi. Living the standalone dream so to speak.

Is there a viable workaround? Or maybe possible in a future update?

[elbows]

For workaround purposes, the WIDI bluetooth dongles actually work better than people tend to expect. The WIDI Bud Pro should work with the Push 3 USB host port and will show up in the Push settings just like any wired USB MIDI device would. Alternatively the WIDI Jack might also work with the 3.5mm jacks on the Push, but I dont think I've actually checked whether those provide enough power to enable that device to work without requiring additional power from elsewhere.

In theory the networking in Push 3 standalone can work for other purposes, eg I've already used it to send Open Sound Control (OSC) messages to visual software on a computer. Again in theory someone could probably write a Max for Live device that converts MIDI (including MPE MIDI) into OSC messages and sends them over the network, and then writes something to run on a computer that turns those OSC messages back into MIDI. But thats quite a lot of work and obviously you'd need some kind of computing device at the other end to do the conversion back to MIDI. So easier to use the existing WIDI bluetooth solutions, especially as already available off the shelf and by buying the right WIDI dongle for the other end of your setup you can avoid using a computer. I'd only revisit the OSC idea if Bluetooth couldnt handle the amount of MIDI messages I was sending.

[Just_Pierre]

The Push 3 provides enough power from the 3.5mm Midi ports to power the 3.5mm CME Widi Jack. It really works perfect!

[joewheela]

Thank you, very much appreciate the answer. CME'd Wide Jack looks interesting. I'll give it a go!

Would cool if Ableton would enable RTP. I'd love to do live without an extra dongly thing that costs $120.

[joewheela]

Actually, thinking about this some more... the real thing that sucks about using Widi vs RTP... it's limited to 16 channels of MIDI. The MioXL can run 22 RTP connections. Each one is totally a separate set of MIDI ins and outs. I could use up to 352 (22 x 16) channels of MIDI. I don't have _that_ much gear, but I do use quite a few RTP sessions. I defnietly need more than 16 midi channels.

Hmmm.

[lookmom]

+1 for this feature
RTP midi over wifi is a must have and I really wanna love my push3 more

[joewheela]

Yup, it really is.

Over the last few weeks I’ve reorganized my entire studio to try to make P3 work, but the lack of Midi connectivity has become a dealbreaker. I have several standalone sequencers that cost waaaaay less and are much better equipped with midi i/o. Squarp Hapax has 4/1, MPC Live II has 2/2, MPC X has 4/2! Even OXI can get 2 outs with the splitter and that’s primarily a CV oriented device.

One in, one out is not enough!

This is why I’d hoped/assumed RTP would be supported. Ableton claim it can be the “heart of your setup” with product shots on their website showing much grander outboard setups than mine. Is that just marketing BS?

To make matters worse, MPE causes issues with some instruments (eg, TR-8S really doesn’t like it). AFAIK there’s no way to filter MPE per-track, so now I’ve had to globally turn that off too. The utility value of this thing is plummeting for me. This weekend I dusted off Push 2. It starts up faster, doesn’t chew up a valuable USB C port and is otherwise functionally equivalent in my setup. The only thing I’m missing is the clicky wheel, and that’s being kind.

Sorry to pile on to the hate train, but Ableton need to know the i/o situation is a dumpster fire. A stand-alone sequencer is a product squarely aimed at the “DAW-less”, but without enough I/O it’s practically useless.

Very disappointing.

[elbows]

Its not a dumpster fire because you can use multiple USB->MIDI options via the USB host port, including the use of a USB hub (unlike the Hapax).

[joewheela]

Oh nice. I’d read only some controllers were supported. Hadn’t even tried using for midi out. Thanks!

[joewheela]

Its not a dumpster fire because you can use multiple USB->MIDI options via the USB host port, including the use of a USB hub (unlike the Hapax).

Alright. So I feel a bit of an idiot for not trying to plug Push into my MIDI interface. I totally misunderstood the limitations of the USB port. I'd honestly just factory reset P3 and boxed it up to flog it on Reverb. Game on!

Fantastic seeing all the USB DAW ports on the MioXL light up in PUSH. I now have 15 extra midi ports available. Even shows the names correctly!

This is totally workable. It would still be nicer if RTP worked, but understandable that's not launch feature. The dream is doing all this wirelessly and being able to work on the same Live sets in Ableton without messing around with cables or remapping midi devices. ...one day, fingers crossed.

I still have to have MPE turned off in the sensitivity settings, but I don't really care about that.

[elbows]

Glad my tip gave new life to your Push journey!

As for MPE, you ought to be able to leave it enabled overall but then control within each track whether that track uses MPE or not. ie If an instrument on a track isnt MPE, the pads will fall back to a non-MPE mode when controlling that track. In the case of tracks that are sending MIDI to external instruments, either the main MIDI channel output setting for that track, or the MIDI channel in the 'External Instrument Device' if you are using that on the track, will stop MPE being used if the channel is not specifically set to MPE. (because MPE absolutely requires multiple channels in order to function, if you are only seeing messages on a single channel then this is a different variation of expression/expressive playing surface output, eg poly aftertouch, its not technically speaking MPE)

However I suppose it may be the case that the device you say doesnt like MPE is actually being disturbed by something else, eg poly aftertouch MIDI messages, and those would indeed still be sent if the track MIDI channel was set to something other than MPE and the main expression setting in global settings was still on MPE. But this may not be the situation either, would need to experiment with settings and/or study the MIDI output in a MIDI monitor and work out exactly what messages the TR-8S doesnt like to get to the bottom of this problem fully.

[lookmom]

Ableton team can we please please please get RTP/Network MIDI over both cable and Wi-fi

[burbus]

The Push 3 provides enough power from the 3.5mm Midi ports to power the 3.5mm CME Widi Jack. It really works perfect!

what cables did you use to connect your push to the CME Widi Jack? i bought the CME branded 2.5 to 3.5 mm cables, and it doesnt seem to recognize the WIDI, meaning that when i go to the MIDI menu in Push, i only see Ableton Push 3 User Port, and Ableton Push 3 External Port, and i would expect to see "WIDI Jack" as an option.

[Just_Pierre]

The Push 3 provides enough power from the 3.5mm Midi ports to power the 3.5mm CME Widi Jack. It really works perfect!

what cables did you use to connect your push to the CME Widi Jack? i bought the CME branded 2.5 to 3.5 mm cables, and it doesnt seem to recognize the WIDI, meaning that when i go to the MIDI menu in Push, i only see Ableton Push 3 User Port, and Ableton Push 3 External Port, and i would expect to see "WIDI Jack" as an option.

I also use the original cables.I think I used the Ableton Push 3 user port, but I'm not sure. I will check later this day when I'm home.

Update : just tried it, the CME Widi Jack doesn't show up as a midi device, you have to use the Ableton User Port.

[lookmom]

Ableton cmon man.. mpc has a network midi driver that support rtp midi. This is a key feature that is lacking on such a modern device.