Largest NVMe drive for Push 3 Standalone

[mslinn]

The Push 3 Standalone drive fills up rather quickly. I am comfortable working with computer components and Linux.

Would the Push 3 Standalone BIOS accept a 4 TB NVMe, for example a WD_BLACK 4TB SN850X?

PCIe Bus

The SN850X costs a more because it is for a Gen4 PCIe bus. However, the specs for the Intel® Core™ i3-1115G4 Processor state:

• Microprocessor PCIe Revision Gen 4
• Chipset / PCH PCIe Revision Gen 3

If I understand the specs correctly, a PCIe Gen4 NVMe installed in a Push 3 Standalone would operate at the Gen3 spec level, so I should buy a cheaper Gen3 NVMe.

Capacity

Would the BIOS accept a 4 TB drive, or is 2 TB the maximum size?

[zenkick]

Would the BIOS accept a 4 TB drive, or is 2 TB the maximum size?

I was considering a 2TB (which I know works based on others' upgrades), but almost pulled the trigger on a 4TB to further future-proof it.

However, I'm not sure you'll see a sanctioned response from Ableton here in the user forums, so hopefully someone in the shadows who has done it will chime in with their experience.

[mslinn]

Alright, I am eager to hear the results of whatever you buy.

So we do not know 2 things:
- maximum size
- maximum PCIe bus speed

PCIe Gen 3 operates at 8 GT/s (gigatransfers per second) which roughly translates to 1 GB/s per PCIe lane. By comparison, PCIe Gen 4 operates at 16 GT/s, or around 2 GB/s (gigabytes per second) per PCIe lane.

- From "What is the difference between PCIe Gen 3 and PCIe Gen 4?" on Kingston.com

[zenkick]

I'm assuming you followed through this thread: viewtopic.php?t=248249

I plan to order something for imaging/expansion once I know my (second) warranty replacement is en'route -- still waiting on support to send me a shipping label.

[mslinn]

Yes I read that post, and noted when he said:

I had a 2TB drive. I ran into issues that I resolved a different way, I'll write something about that perhaps another day.

He did not try a Gen4, nor did he try a 4 TB.

So maybe he hit issues that were minor, or major, he did not say.

[zenkick]

My 4TB Gen4 WD_BLACK (SN850X) is recognized by the P3S.

I now have 3.6TB free.

[Machinesworking]

Out of curiosity, so the Push 3 does not have an extra slot for another NVME drive right? You all are bravely cloning the 256 and getting busy?

[zenkick]

Out of curiosity, so the Push 3 does not have an extra slot for another NVME drive right? You all are bravely cloning the 256 and getting busy?

Yes.

Yes (although I wouldn't consider it brave.)

[phil.harmoniq]

My 4TB Gen4 WD_BLACK (SN850X) is recognized by the P3S.

I now have 3.6TB free.

I’m considering doing a similar upgrade. Did you have any issues with license authorization after swapping the SSD?

[zenkick]

I’m considering doing a similar upgrade. Did you have any issues with license authorization after swapping the SSD?

In my situation, I imaged my drive before returning my unit for a warranty replacement because I didn't want to spend the time reinstalling everything again. I then installed it before powering up the replacement unit for the first time. Seems fine and already registered.

That said, if I get prompted for a new registration after an update (or some check-in with the Ableton mothership), I have already confirmed with support that it is possible to get another license slot for the unit's software.

YMMV, of course.

[CH7]

I've got a Gen4 2TB working now on the Push.

The push won't recognize this extra space naturally, as the clone of the original drive also writes the disk block with its original space allocations.

After a successful clone [on Windows i used DiskGenius] you then need a Linux installation to change the drive parameters.
When I did this I didn't have Linux and somehow wrangled a VirtualBox installation of Linux Ubunto with workarounds for the VR to see the external drives. A very long story. I would advise anyone trying this to create a dual boot system and have a real Linux install. Or use a Mac.

Once you have Linux access you can use Gparted to delete and recreate the /data drive to use all of the available space. ;0)
The drive needs to be created as ext4 and labeled 'data' and also named 'data' this is important as the Push OS is looking for this label.

Now for the fun part.

When i first authorized the Push i didn't realize there were write issues. eg important config files weren't being created/updated or saved to the data partition. I have 'Live 11 Suite', yet the Push kept showing 'Live 11 Intro', then i noticed an error whilst trying to factory reset and reauthorize the Push.


[EDIT] repasting what i pasted in another thread.

I had upgraded the SSD from 250gb to 2TB, this required me to delete the /data partition and recreate the partition via Gparted on Linux, to use all of the extra space on the drive. The problem with this is it came with premission errors meaning the Push OS couldn't write the config files it needed to that /data partition.

When i Authorise the PUSH [via a USB to Ethernet dongle] I got the following error -

The file "/data/.local/share/Ableton/Installation.cfg" cannot be opened for writing because it is write-protected.

At least this clue was there.

It seems the same write protection also prevented the WIFI password from being saved along with its config files. There were no other clues to this.
The solution was simple enough, I removed the SSD to a M.2 to USB Dongle, then booted into a Linux installation which allowed me to see the drives.

The following result was found when searching for write-protection faults.
"
Open the terminal.
Type sudo chmod 777 /data/ and press Enter. This command will give all users full read, write, and execute permissions to the directory /data/.
If prompted, enter your password and press Enter.
"

In my case, the /data partition was found as /media/<user name>/data . The command was modified to sudo 'chmod -R 777 /media/<user name>/data'.

[where -R recursively sets read/write/execute globally for all the files on that drive. ]

Now with the SSD back in the Push, I did another factory reset, [as other config files from the initial boot won't be where they need to be. ]
I then reauthorized the Push, this time there were no errors. When i rebooted the PUSH it showed "Ableton Live 11 Suite". 1.8tb space available

As a bonus, the Wifi now works.

After allowing me to save the password, the selected network is displayed in 'green'. I didn't know this. Once again there were no clues to why this had failed before. I guess drive upgrades and write protection faults were never anticipated. A failure to verify a file write could have been followed by the Push OS correcting for that fault.

The Push with this 'slow' 4800Mb/s Gen4 SSD now boots in 35 seconds. These things can do 7400Mb/s which i wish i'd gone for.

I hope others find this useful.

paypal.me/ifyoulikedthis
#upgraded SSD

[CH7]

Alright, I am eager to hear the results of whatever you buy.

So we do not know 2 things:
- maximum size
- maximum PCIe bus speed

PCIe Gen 3 operates at 8 GT/s (gigatransfers per second) which roughly translates to 1 GB/s per PCIe lane. By comparison, PCIe Gen 4 operates at 16 GT/s, or around 2 GB/s (gigabytes per second) per PCIe lane. .

- From "What is the difference between PCIe Gen 3 and PCIe Gen 4?" on Kingston.com

It would be interesting to know if RAM speeds suffer at the cost of faster SSD access. The CPU supports the faster PCIe but is there a trade going on? Ableton might have chosen Gen3 drives for other reasons besides the cost.

Ditto the NCU element with its 8gb. There are pin-compatible NUC's out there with 16gb on board but they draw more energy 28w, compared to our unit's 15w. More watts, less battery life, and greater heat.

I hope they improve the Push's bespoke battery, as the battery will be the first required upgrade, and the present 3800mAh is paltry

[mslinn]

Gen 3 PCIe is older, slower and in no way better than Gen 4 PCIe. NVMe on Gen 3 PCIe is noticeably slower than NVMe on Gen 4 PCIe. There are no advantages of Gen 3 PCI over Gen 4, besides cost.

[mslinn]

I've got a Gen4 2TB working now on the Push.

The Push with this 'slow' 4800Mb/s Gen4 SSD now boots in 35 seconds. These things can do 7400Mb/s which i wish i'd gone for.

Sounds like you are saying that the P3 BIOS accepts 2 TB, and the Push motherboard supports Gen 4 PCIe. Thanks, I will buy a fast 2 TB NVMe (M.2 2280 format) drive with PCIe Gen 4 capability, like a WD_BLACK SN850X (https://www.newegg.ca/western-digital-2 ... 6820250247)

[zenkick]

I've got a Gen4 2TB working now on the Push.

The Push with this 'slow' 4800Mb/s Gen4 SSD now boots in 35 seconds. These things can do 7400Mb/s which i wish i'd gone for.

Sounds like you are saying that the P3 BIOS accepts 2 TB, and the Push motherboard supports Gen 4 PCIe. Thanks, I will buy a fast 2 TB NVMe (M.2 2280 format) drive with PCIe Gen 4 capability, like a WD_BLACK SN850X (https://www.newegg.ca/western-digital-2 ... 6820250247)

FYI - I have a 4TB G4. Push recognized it.