How do I get TRUE mono????

[AtHomeMusicMaker]

I’ve done my googling research and I’m sure everyone is familiar that this is an ongoing topic because of Ableton quirkiness with what seems to be something that should be the simplest thing in the world to do….

I’ve gotten to the point that you’re supposed to add this mono utility to change a stereo track to mono. And then everything’s fixed and good to go

However, when I have my earbud headphones in, and I’m panning my new mono track from left to right, almost immediately as I start to move over to the next channel, I faintly start hearing sound in the other side of the headphones…. For example. Let’s say I pan my mono track all the way to the left…. I take out my left ear headphone/left earbud… and I slowly begin to pan from the left over to the right headphones/right earbud ….Almost immediately as soon as I move the knob just slightly to the right, I start to hear sound coming in on the right headphones/right earbud

Is this how mono works? Is there no such thing as true mono in any situation? Is it always this game of a “mono” Track being louder on one side and quieter on the other side and in fact, is actually really just a stereo track being balanced?

I watched the YouTube video “you suck at producing” and how he explains the pan knob is actually a balancing knob. Still, here, I am adding the mono utility, and it’s clearly playing in both speakers. (meaning, I’m hearing the exact same sound in both speakers. Not drums on one side and reverb on the other like its explained in his video.)

My assumed understanding of a mono track is that if I’m panning from the left over to the right, with a panning knob… I shouldn’t be able to hear any sound in the right speaker until I’ve passed the center point on that knob… am I wrong about that? Is that not how mono works?

[H20nly]

Use one speaker

[slow.robot]

I think you can right click the pan and choose dual pan mode (probably forgetting the correct term). then pan both of the dual controls to the same value to get a true mono signal that you can pan to a specific point.

[[jur]]

My assumed understanding of a mono track is that if I’m panning from the left over to the right, with a panning knob… I shouldn’t be able to hear any sound in the right speaker until I’ve passed the center point on that knob… am I wrong about that? Is that not how mono works?

Yes you are mixing things up.
You have to differentiate mono/stereo files (audio), i.e your source;
and mono/stereo output, i.e your speakers/earbuds.
You can send a mono sound to a stereo output system. You'll hear a mono sound, even when panning between the two speakers. As Angstrom said if you want "real" mono, use only one speaker...
You can send a stereo sound to a mono output system, it'll of course only be heard in mono since you have only one speaker. Depending if the channels are summed or not by your DAC, you'll hear a mono sound anyway... since you have only one speaker.

etc...

In your case, if you want a sound to be only heard on the e.g left side, you need to put the pan pot fully to the left.

[slow.robot]

just checked…it’s called Split Stereo Pan Mode

right click and check the Select Split Stereo Pan Mode option and you’ll get two sliders. panning both to the same value should get you what (I think) you’re asking for.

[slow.robot]

wow, I completely missed the last part of what you’re saying. yes, you’re misunderstanding. never mind me. what Jur said.

[AtHomeMusicMaker]

just checked…it’s called Split Stereo Pan Mode

right click and check the Select Split Stereo Pan Mode option and you’ll get two sliders. panning both to the same value should get you what (I think) you’re asking for.

I know about that, and I tried it, But that’s not what I’m trying to accomplish.

So the reason I’m asking is because I want to ultimately automate a sound. Where it’s going from the left channel over to the right and back over to the left again.

So I’m trying to isolate a sound, as if it was a dot, very precise, moving from my left ear up over my head to the right ear

What I’m hearing in my headphones is, like what I described before… not a precise dot, but a spectrum that is quieter on one side and louder on the other. As the volume level shift from one side to the next, it gives the illusion that the sound is moving from the left to the right. But I want it to be isolated to the point that when the sound is moving from the left ear over to the right ear, i’m not able to hear it in my right ear headphones/earbud until it’s past the centerpoint (I.e above my head/middle of the spectrum/ center “c” on the panning knob

Is that possible or are we stuck with only the capabilities similar to how the human ear hears? I thought maybe producers have figured out a trick by now with phasing or something that can isolate a sound/pinpoint it. I thought that’s what “mono” was…
. (Now I guess I’m figuring out that mono only means that it’s the exact same recording playing in the left and right speaker?)

My finished product is going to be in stereo. I want a normal sounding song that is playable through two speakers. I just really want to isolate certain sounds so that they’re traveling from one side to the next, precisely (only able to hear the sound through the left speaker when it’s on the left side of the center “c” Mark,… and only able to hear the sound through the right speaker when it’s on the right side of the center “c” Mark)

[AtHomeMusicMaker]

My assumed understanding of a mono track is that if I’m panning from the left over to the right, with a panning knob… I shouldn’t be able to hear any sound in the right speaker until I’ve passed the center point on that knob… am I wrong about that? Is that not how mono works?

Yes you are mixing things up.
You have to differentiate mono/stereo files (audio), i.e your source;
and mono/stereo output, i.e your speakers/earbuds.
You can send a mono sound to a stereo output system. You'll hear a mono sound, even when panning between the two speakers. As Angstrom said if you want "real" mono, use only one speaker...
You can send a stereo sound to a mono output system, it'll of course only be heard in mono since you have only one speaker. Depending if the channels are summed or not by your DAC, you'll hear a mono sound anyway... since you have only one speaker.

etc...

In your case, if you want a sound to be only heard on the e.g left side, you need to put the pan pot fully to the left.

My main reason for wanting a mono track is so that I can use the sound for automation.

I made some recordings years ago on a Tascam pocket recorder. The panning knobs on that, is what you use to record automation, in real time, as the pre-recorded song recordings are playing. So in my head, I always visualized the sound as being a little dot going from the left to right.

Mainly, that’s just what I’m trying to accomplish. Automation that can’t be heard in the right speaker when it’s on the left of the “c” centerpoint , and can’t be heard in the left speaker when it’s on the right of the “c” centerpoint . That’s why, when I was checking the stereo track I converted into a mono track en Ableton, and heard that I could hear it in the right speaker, even though the knob was pointing almost as far left as it can go, I was wondering if I’m dealing with a “true “mono track? Maybe what I’m imagining is impossible… (?)

Is that how mono works?

I think what I’m calling “mono “ is actually just an isolated sound (left and right volume/values are in the exact same place on the spectrum, instead of divided throughout the spectrum at different volume levels) that I want to move from the left to right with anutomation…. Meaning, I want the left and right values of that sound to be in one spot… and not separated between the left and right speaker… is there such a way to do that?

I might be explaining that a little better in the response I gave to Slow.robot…. I want to try to isolate the sound into a dot as opposed to it existing as to volume levels in a spectrum between the left and right speaker…. does that make sense?

[lincolnkid]

The way your brain locates a sound is by the difference in volume and timing of the sound signals arriving at your two ears. So for your brain to track the "dot" sound it needs the signal from both sides. Even if it is a monophonic dot.

Here's a nice tutorial on panning: https://www.mixinglessons.com/panning/

Here's some technical brain stuff: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interaura ... difference

[slow.robot]

just checked…it’s called Split Stereo Pan Mode

right click and check the Select Split Stereo Pan Mode option and you’ll get two sliders. panning both to the same value should get you what (I think) you’re asking for.

I know about that, and I tried it, But that’s not what I’m trying to accomplish.

So the reason I’m asking is because I want to ultimately automate a sound. Where it’s going from the left channel over to the right and back over to the left again.

So I’m trying to isolate a sound, as if it was a dot, very precise, moving from my left ear up over my head to the right ear

What I’m hearing in my headphones is, like what I described before… not a precise dot, but a spectrum that is quieter on one side and louder on the other. As the volume level shift from one side to the next, it gives the illusion that the sound is moving from the left to the right. But I want it to be isolated to the point that when the sound is moving from the left ear over to the right ear, i’m not able to hear it in my right ear headphones/earbud until it’s past the centerpoint (I.e above my head/middle of the spectrum/ center “c” on the panning knob

Is that possible or are we stuck with only the capabilities similar to how the human ear hears? I thought maybe producers have figured out a trick by now with phasing or something that can isolate a sound/pinpoint it. I thought that’s what “mono” was…
. (Now I guess I’m figuring out that mono only means that it’s the exact same recording playing in the left and right speaker?)

My finished product is going to be in stereo. I want a normal sounding song that is playable through two speakers. I just really want to isolate certain sounds so that they’re traveling from one side to the next, precisely (only able to hear the sound through the left speaker when it’s on the left side of the center “c” Mark,… and only able to hear the sound through the right speaker when it’s on the right side of the center “c” Mark)

ah--I think I understand now. but no, I don't think that will work, and more importantly, I don't think it will sound like you're expecting it to. without a third moving speaker, all you can do is approximate a sound's location using stereo imaging--by definition, the movement is accomplished by having the signal in both speakers at different volumes (this is in part how our ears work too). what you're describing would have the sound suddenly jump from one speaker panned hard left to the other panned hard right, as it 'moves'.

you might want to look into some kind of spatial imaging effects, which might help with the 'above the head' feeling you mention.

to the question about mono--that just means the information (not the volume) in the left channel is no different than the information in the right channel. with the normal panner (not split stereo) any stereo track panned hard left or right will be mono for as long as it's hard-panned. anything anywhere else in between on that spectrum would be stereo. on the other hand, for a mono track, the sound in the left channel is the same as the sound in the right--even if the volume levels are different. so the mono track can be panned a quarter to the right, meaning same signal, just louder volume in the right speaker than the left.

[yur2die4]

It sounds like you are talking about a mono track but you are definitely thinking about a stereo result. And for some reason you are making your deductions based on the result. To find out if something is mono, do a phase cancellation of one side (can do this with Utility), then after one side is phase cancelled, convert it to mono (can do this with Utility also). Of the dual channels are monophonic, meaning they do not send separate information to speakers, then the phase and mono will result in it cancelling out to Zero sound, completely muted.

As for what you are describing. It sounds more like just controlling the levels of the Left and Right channels. And you are more having challenges with accomplishing what you desire with how Panning is implemented. So the problem isn’t mono, but panning methods.

From what you describe, it sounds like you kind of want a ‘proximity’ aspect. This is a part that is confusing. Most people think of panning as, Loud on right when turned right, silent on left, and then gradually fading towards the center where they are Equal, then fading the other way.

But there are two ways to interpret the thing you are describing because of this confusion. If you want No sound from the Left as your Rightmost approaches C, then either you want it starting loudest at the furthest Right and then fading to Zero when it hits center? Or, you want it Silent when the Pan is furthest right, as in, the source is so far away and to the right that it is inaudible, and as it approaches ‘Center’, the Right channel gets louder and louder (while still no sound from the Right), until it hits dead center, at which point they are simultaneous and at their full volume, and then as it passes C, the Right channel abruptly disappears and the Left channel begins diminishing.

Maybe some of these concepts are what you are describing? I figured I would try to get a better understanding of what you are saying, and maybe give you extra descriptive options so you can lean closer to describing the expectation you have.

[AtHomeMusicMaker]

Thanks for the replies guys! Much appreciated. I think it’s just a matter of my not understanding of a mono track. Which should’ve been a no-brainer on my part but I didn’t realize it until I started paying more closer attention to what’s happening in both speakers when I’m automate things from the right to left

I should be able to accomplish what I want to. I just wanted to make sure that I was moving forward with the correct format (mono vs stereo ) before diving and getting too deep.

Again, thank you