Live 12.0 GUI stuttering randomly

[rrroach]

Running into an issue on the 12.0 release-- here are my notes on it:

- Project loads up fine and functions without any issues for some amount of time (roughly 30 minutes)
- Suddenly for 20-30 seconds the entire GUI of Live begins to stutter, as the framerate drops to about 0.5 to 1 FPS and holds at a steady rate for the duration of that time.
- Audio playback is not affected. From my Push I can stop playback on command.
- Does not seem to correlate to project complexity or CPU load. I see this happening for both for simple projects w/ the CPU working at 15% capacity as well as complicated projects @ 70% capacity.
- MacOS itself does not slow down at all during this time. I can interact with other applications without any issues.
- MacOS Activity Monitor reports numbers that reflect much the same % values as described above.
- The same projects work smoothly in Live 11.3.21. No stuttering.
- Have not been able to trace the issue to any specific plugin(s) or device(s). I will continue to monitor.

Live v12.0
2021 Macbook Pro w/ M1 Pro chip
MacOS Sonoma 14.3.1
Push 2 connected
Presonus Audiobox audio interface connected
Other 3rd party MIDI devices also connected

[raindogmotion]

Just to say I posted the same problem about 2 hours before you! Difference being that it did it on 11 for me too. Let me share what tech support said to me about it last year. None of their suggestions have worked for me ... but thought the info would be useful to you. Their main suggestion that accessing cloud based services at the same time might be the problem, although that sounded feasible (I was using Dropbox actively during a LIVE session), turned out not to make any difference. I have run 12 with internet access turned off, and the GUI still stutters.

Anyway here's what they said:

"First and foremost, I'm sorry to hear about these issues.

There are problems logged that might be set-up related. Most of them weer file access or permissions related in nature.

The logs are showing that these issues seem to involve loading the Live set from a Dropbox directory, this seems to currently be hosting the project and all containing and also referenced data of the Live set.

Document locations: file:///Users/rainfelix/Dropbox/FELIX/Music SHARING folder/1st surround test Project/surround working 4 SECOND GREAT xxx this one.als

Hence, I would suggest focussing on this first now as having it set up like this can cause various issues, and also file corruption if back-up routines are running while Live would be saving or closing files.

As of now, Live is not optimized to be used in conjunction with any such services like OneDrive, Dropbox, Splice, Google Drive, etc.

Please store your set locally, outside any online hosting directories.

I'm sharing this article below, which provides some tips if you rely on such services for Live projects:

Cloud Storage Best Practices

To work around the issues with your current projects, please remove the directory from Live's browser and also make sure these are using an offline location as host directory for the entire project. Thus, making sure that any of the referenced files get stored inside the same directory.

Try resetting Live again if this does yield any different results:

How to reset Live

This is to assure that no online synch mechanisms can interfere with subroutines and also referenced files in your sets (streaming of samples, working with plug-ins, scripts, etc.). It might also be the case that issues in this area become more prominent or reproduce easier when plug-ins are involved.

Please additionally make sure there are no system or root directories or also any cloud-based directories with online synchronization (OneDrive, Dropbox, Apple iCloud or Google Drive for example) added to Places. This could also be applying to directories which are connected to databases in general and are having dynamic content, such as system folders, download directories or said project folders for example.

Even though some of these folders appear as local directories, there are chances that the synch mechanisms can interfere. For example, with Live's database update routines for the browser. Deactivating their synchronization is a good first step in tackling these things. If this is persisting after you have considered that, I would recommend hosting any library-related item in other locations that are not synchronized to any of these services if possible.

Before you launch Live again, please also make sure it has full disk access, as shown in the screenshot below:



"Full Disk Access" in "System Preferences" → "Security and Privacy" → "Privacy" → click on the folder "Full Disk Access" and be sure you have Live 11.3.13 added there.

This should help in ruling out running into any permissions related issues in general."

[Cypeace]

Just throwing in an idea, but do you have on any track an expanded EQ8? That sht has been bugged since 11 with no solution on sight..

[benmuetsch]

Do you have mixed APFS and HFS+ drives connected / mounted?

[scheffkoch]

...i have the same computer (m1 pro) and i run into kinda this issue when i have the plugin window (respectively more than one instance) of "duck" open....i found out that this draws a lot of gpu (!) power that makes live behave sluggish...so maybe next time this happens to you check your gpu with activity monitor and see if it consumes a lot of resources....

[rrroach]

Thanks to all who've replied so far! Here are my responses to each.

Just to say I posted the same problem about 2 hours before you! Difference being that it did it on 11 for me too. Let me share what tech support said to me about it last year. None of their suggestions have worked for me ... but thought the info would be useful to you. Their main suggestion that accessing cloud based services at the same time might be the problem, although that sounded feasible (I was using Dropbox actively during a LIVE session), turned out not to make any difference. I have run 12 with internet access turned off, and the GUI still stutters.

Anyway here's what they said:
. . .

- I do use OneDrive but I do not recall ever running into this issue on Live 10 or 11. I recall only experiencing it on Live 12 Beta and 12.0. Most importantly though, when I open up Live 11 and load up the v11 .ALS projects from the same OneDrive directory I don't get any issues.
- I will consolidate a project onto local drive only to take OneDrive out of the equations as a test, and report back.
- I checked for Full Disk Access permissions but don't see Live 11 or 12.0 listed there-- I only see 12 Beta listed, and its permissions are set to ON.

Just throwing in an idea, but do you have on any track an expanded EQ8? That sht has been bugged since 11 with no solution on sight..

- No I do not have any expanded EQ8.

Do you have mixed APFS and HFS+ drives connected / mounted?

- I have a MacOS Journal-formatted HDD which hosts my instrument and sample libraries. **This particular HDD is a recent introduction to my system as it is a temporary replacement for my SSD which failed recently due to an unrelated issue. I will see if I can determine whether this drive is a potential contributor to the problem and report back.**
- I have an APFS-formatted TimeMachine HDD connected which is set to back up automatically. I will leave the drive disconnected going forward while troubleshooting from here on out.

...i have the same computer (m1 pro) and i run into kinda this issue when i have the plugin window (respectively more than one instance) of "duck" open....i found out that this draws a lot of gpu (!) power that makes live behave sluggish...so maybe next time this happens to you check your gpu with activity monitor and see if it consumes a lot of resources....

Truth be told, I did not realize that activity monitor also shows GPU usage! I was only looking at the CPU % column and graph. I will definitely monitor this and report back!

All in all, I realize now that I need to test several things before being confident that this is a Live 12 issue and not due to something on my end. . .

[benmuetsch]

Do you have mixed APFS and HFS+ drives connected / mounted?

- I have a MacOS Journal-formatted HDD which hosts my instrument and sample libraries. **This particular HDD is a recent introduction to my system as it is a temporary replacement for my SSD which failed recently due to an unrelated issue. I will see if I can determine whether this drive is a potential contributor to the problem and report back.**
- I have an APFS-formatted TimeMachine HDD connected which is set to back up automatically. I will leave the drive disconnected going forward while troubleshooting from here on out.

I had this lagging issue since Live 10 with both a 2010 Mac Pro and a 2019 Mac Pro. What helped me was getting rid of all mixed file format drives (everything APFS) and unmounting my Time Machine drive while working in Ableton. Hope that helps

[rrroach]

Unfortunately the issue persists.
- The previous HDD has been completely eliminated from the setup.
- All media is stored in my SSD which is APFS formatted.
- No Time Machine is involved in the picture at all. My Time Machine drive is physically disconnected.
- One last thing to add is that this happens even when only using built-in Live effects.

Still the issue is only with Live 12, while Live 11 continues to function without issue. Anyone else have any ideas?

[jpallatin]

What happens if you disconnect the audio interface and use the MBP speakers as output? The Push 2? The other devices?

[Gral]

Just throwing in an idea, but do you have on any track an expanded EQ8? That sht has been bugged since 11 with no solution on sight..

You have already written this several times. What is the problem with EQ8? I haven't noticed anything yet. And what do you actually mean by "expanded"?

[Gral]

Does this EQ8 "bug" apply to Windows & Mac?

[Cypeace]

Just throwing in an idea, but do you have on any track an expanded EQ8? That sht has been bugged since 11 with no solution on sight..

You have already written this several times. What is the problem with EQ8? I haven't noticed anything yet. And what do you actually mean by "expanded"?

It's in fact any spectrum analyzer in native Ableton devices. Click the triangle or double-click the window and it will open expanded view above the device panel. If it's quite narrow it's ok but the more you pull up, the more FPS drops. If you pull it all the way to the top, you can count FPS on one hand.

I just posted it in hopes it might be the culprit.

[Gral]

Just throwing in an idea, but do you have on any track an expanded EQ8? That sht has been bugged since 11 with no solution on sight..

You have already written this several times. What is the problem with EQ8? I haven't noticed anything yet. And what do you actually mean by "expanded"?

It's in fact any spectrum analyzer in native Ableton devices. Click the triangle or double-click the window and it will open expanded view above the device panel. If it's quite narrow it's ok but the more you pull up, the more FPS drops. If you pull it all the way to the top, you can count FPS on one hand.

I just posted it in hopes it might be the culprit.

Ah, interesting. Thanks for the info. I hadn't noticed that yet, as I usually close the large Spectrum window when I no longer need it. I'll keep an eye on it.

[rrroach]

I have figured out that my issue is in fact related to OneDrive. When I pause OneDrive backup the problem goes away, hooray! Really puzzling how this was not an issue with Live 11 or prior, but hey, it is what it is.

Thanks all!