Expensive update

[madlab]

Don't know how other users feel about it, but 199€ for Suite upgrade is quite expensive. I'm aboard since Live 1 but feel I won't upgrade because of this unless I really have to do so. This is surprising because it seems to me there are much more legit users nowadays.

[pdfreader]

Not to mention no downloadable reference manual.....

[Gral]

Many people have no idea how complicated a somewhat more complex software project is. What is involved. How many people are involved, all of whom want to be paid.

A DAW like Ableton is a quite complex program. It consists of many components, all of which not only have to be developed individually and in combination with everything else, but also extensively tested by QC before the final release version is finally ready to be published.

The manpower required for this has to be paid for, without the company seeing a cent that it can book as profit.

After the release, the team does not go home and is then unemployed. No, they are still employed by the company and cost money month after month, which has to be earned through the sale of the product.

In order for the company to survive in the long term, the price must be calculated in such a way that potential buyers are not put off, all expenses are covered and there is still a little left over for a rainy day.

You should consider what you spend every month on things that are really expensive, e.g. rent, electricity, heating, fuel, telephone and internet, food, etc., and then think about what is expensive.

[kitekrazy]

Many people have no idea how complicated a somewhat more complex software project is. What is involved. How many people are involved, all of whom want to be paid.

A DAW like Ableton is a quite complex program. It consists of many components, all of which not only have to be developed individually and in combination with everything else, but also extensively tested by QC before the final release version is finally ready to be published.

The manpower required for this has to be paid for, without the company seeing a cent that it can book as profit.

After the release, the team does not go home and is then unemployed. No, they are still employed by the company and cost money month after month, which has to be earned through the sale of the product.

In order for the company to survive in the long term, the price must be calculated in such a way that potential buyers are not put off, all expenses are covered and there is still a little left over for a rainy day.

You should consider what you spend every month on things that are really expensive, e.g. rent, electricity, heating, fuel, telephone and internet, food, etc., and then think about what is expensive.

I could copy and paste this and replace Ableton with every DAW out there,
I get it when some devices like the sampler is never updated.
I find the real value is Max4Live.

Your last statement is not logical comparing necessities to luxuries.

I would fear if Ableton got bought.

Pricing is also never about amount of legit users.

[jpallatin]

It's worth it.

[Tarekith]

The upgrade price is in line with what every other Live Suite upgrade has been. Not sure why you're surprised by it if you've been using Live since version 1.

[kitekrazy]

They don't have the 50% upgrade sale like Steinberg.

I know people think Bitwig is great but they are like Waves with their WUP. That gets pricey. The usual response it you don't have to upgrade, Well it's the same for this.

[madlab]

The upgrade price is in line with what every other Live Suite upgrade has been. Not sure why you're surprised by it if you've been using Live since version 1.

I don't remember having paid about 200€ (well, ok, 199...) except maybe for the previous upgrade, maybe because I upgraded with special offers. For several versions now I've waited a while for the first bugs to be ironed out before jumping in.
Yes, I've been aboard since version 1 (I remember your name from the forum early days) and bought every new version.
Maybe I find this too costly because my wages didn't raise for five years while most of the food and energy bills have doubled...

[[jur]]

Maybe I find this too costly because my wages didn't raise for five years while most of the food and energy bills have doubled...

That's unfortunately the case for everyone Ableton's employees included.
Gral's post is relevant imo, Ableton has several hundred salaries to pay for every month; do the maths, that's a gigantic amount of money.
And we're not even counting for investments in things like R&D (imagine the years and money spent on working on e.g P3S) and all the rest. The money comes from licences and upgrades, that's the reality.
For most people, 200$ is what is spent for a few months of phone subscription (which is insane imo)...

[Machinesworking]

It's capitalism, so it makes little real world sense. Companies thrive for years on mostly $79 upgrades like Reaper, and companies get bought and sold multiple times like Steinberg, charging far more for upgrades. The obvious issue, Ableton have multiple hands to feed with Suite compared to standard. There are third party fees to pay and Cycling 74 as well. Yes I remember upgrades that were less than $100 but that was Live Standard and it was at a time when Live was getting upgrades every year practically.

It's very comparable to my other main DAW Digital Performer, DP is $199 roughly every three years, and Ableton seam to have settled on about that price. Logic is $199 once or $5 a month for the iPad version, Pro Tools is subscription, Reaper is $225 every 5 years if you're a pro., and Bitwig is $125-160 roughly every year to keep up to date. All of these companies have wildly different amounts of employees.

[dougdi]

Actually, you can now purchase ProTools. I just upgraded a 10 year old license to the new Studio version for only $200!

[miyaru]

Maybe I find this too costly because my wages didn't raise for five years while most of the food and energy bills have doubled...

That's unfortunately the case for everyone Ableton's employees included.
Gral's post is relevant imo, Ableton has several hundred salaries to pay for every month; do the maths, that's a gigantic amount of money.
And we're not even counting for investments in things like R&D (imagine the years and money spent on working on e.g P3S) and all the rest. The money comes from licences and upgrades, that's the reality.
For most people, 200$ is what is spent for a few months of phone subscription (which is insane imo)...

Yep or pay more than a grand for a cellphone...... never done that, nor will I ever do that.

Technology is expense, and an upgrade might be to much for one (like myself at the moment due to many high bills I have to pay).

Then there is inflation in the economy too which raises the bar even higher. It affects all of us.

Hopefully it is getting better soon for the meek!

[kitekrazy]

Maybe I find this too costly because my wages didn't raise for five years while most of the food and energy bills have doubled...

That's unfortunately the case for everyone Ableton's employees included.
Gral's post is relevant imo, Ableton has several hundred salaries to pay for every month; do the maths, that's a gigantic amount of money.
And we're not even counting for investments in things like R&D (imagine the years and money spent on working on e.g P3S) and all the rest. The money comes from licences and upgrades, that's the reality.
For most people, 200$ is what is spent for a few months of phone subscription (which is insane imo)...

I'm never a fan of people using daily scenarios to justify a DAW purchase. "It's the price of a dinner or sandwich" is suppose to justify a price? People don't always buy their lunch or dinner.
DAW users are a spec of dust in our planet's population. Anyone not in the DAW world would say software is expensive for the first time buyer. Suite is expensive if you don't use any of it. We think DAWs should be like plugins with the race down to zero.

[kitekrazy]

Actually, you can now purchase ProTools. I just upgraded a 10 year old license to the new Studio version for only $200!

But you had to make that first pricey purchase to get in the door.

The first time buyer price of any DAW is expensive if you want all of the bells and whistles.

[[jur]]

It's the price of a dinner or sandwich" is suppose to justify a price?

I specifically didn't make a false comparison by comparing to something vital, but to something superfluous like expensive 5G+XL-whatnot phone subscriptions.
I'm leaving in what's considered a healthy country, I chose a 3€ phone subscription and it's already providing me more than I need. That's just an exemple, I'm not saying I'm doing better choices than anybody else.

Just a as forum guidelines reminder, because I'm myself on the edge here, please don't make this political. Thx