Exclude MIDI devices from All Ins

[Bortmeister]

I've recently upgraded to Live 12 and it really disappoints me that it is still not possible to exclude one or more devices from being counted as one of the "All Ins" in the MIDI From track setup.

I don't think that my use case is unusual - and I'm surprised it isn't a problem for lots of people. Is there a workaround I'm missing?

If you have a couple of control surfaces, like a Keylab and a Launchpad, then it is preferable to have most MIDI tracks set to listen on All Ins - that way you can be flexible with which tracks you arm and play. But if you also have a hardware synth that you would want to dedicate to one track, either as MIDI or an Ext. Instrument - and be able to record knob CC alongside playing another track with the control surface... the knob movements get picked up on other armed tracks.

I don't want to disable the MIDI in on the hardware synth - I want to be able to record MIDI CC from it on its instrument track But I also don't want to pick that MIDI data up via the All Ins.

Locking the other tracks down to a particular control surface is also not ideal - I've got more than one. It makes the setup very inflexible.

Here's an older thread that raises the same problem but it didn't get much engagement:
viewtopic.php?t=225171

Again - with so many control surfaces and controllers coming out, and a lot of people using hardware synths... why is this not more of a problem?

[yur2die4]

Midi channel is another possible filter option, but I dunno if that’d do any good.

[Bortmeister]

It's fine to ensure Port/Channel setup is not causing problems with playback - my issue is more about recording.

I'm using mostly desktop (keyboard-less) synths, so use a control surface across multiple instruments to play them. Leaving the MIDI From assignment on All Ins works until I want to record notes on one track/synth, but turn knobs on a different synth. Those knob movements get picked up on All In, even if they're not from the synth I'm playing notes into.

I can't disable the MIDI Input Port for that synth in Preferences because there will be times when I want to record knob movement. I can do this on a track locked to that particular Input Port. But that still leaves it running through All In.

I think my beef is mostly that I'm using desktop modules, and so I need my controller keyboard to be always usable on the selected track, but I also want to ensure the synth controller data is only coming through on a specific track. I'd never want that data on a track that's not linked to that external instrument. To me, it would never make sense for CCs specific to a synth to be part of 'All In' and echoed to any other track?

The workaround is a) to switch all the main "Ext. Instrument" tracks away from All In to the specific control surface, and b) have a secondary MIDI track for each synth I want knob movements. The drawbacks include a) constant reassigning if you happen to have multiple controller keyboards and b) knob data on separate clips from note data.

If you strictly only deal with one instrument/track at a time, I guess it's less of an issue. But I want to record a bassline and tweak the lead synth cutoff at the same time!

[Valkon]

This is the power and strength of Ableton: they do not look for simple solutions, but will always offer a complex workaround instead: if you ask them to add a MIDI-assignable Pause button when recording, they will refuse, but will offer you to buy Push or M4L; if you want to use a multitimbral instrument on some track, they will refuse too, but they will tell you that you can add fifteen additional ones to this track and configure the routing from them to the desired one; however, if you start a midi clip and want to add your own keyboard passages to it on the same track, then they will not object, but if you decide to record your work in arrange mode, they will only record the clip, but not your playing.. .

[abiah]

People just learn to lose many hours of their life to working around these basic problems, because Ableton's GUI is so intentionally minimal lol. It's ironic how cluttered the workarounds end up being.

[wehkah]

Thats not possible by now. Also M4L cannot filter by midi input devices, it uses the midi input setting from the midi track.

[abiah]

losing another session to this today. The problem is that if you try to have an instrument exclusively recieve input by one dedicated midi-device, you will have a sonic mess when you play that midi-device if any other instrument is set to the standard "All-In" while monitoring for input, as you cannot exclude that midi device from all other tracks.

Seems like the only options are:
A: Restrict by midi channel, say goodbye to multi-channel inputs. Use midi channel 1 for all synths, and chose an exclusive midi channel for the exclusive instrument. Reconfigure any midi control surface knobs that you use to control your synths to also transmit on channel 1, and accept that they can only ever work on midi channel 1.

B: Restrict by input-type, but accept that you will have to mute or disarm any instrument that is set to "All-In" before you start playing the exclusive instrument.


--

The problem unpacked :

I need to route a midi drum pad to a drum rack. I want to hit the drum pads, play drums. I don't want it to interfere with the synths in my session. How hard can that be?

I also have the following core controllers that I use to control any currently selected instrument:
a mini-keyboard
a master-keyboard
a knob-controller, to control the main parameters of my synths

That's my home setup, the kind of basic setup you see on a home studio photo.


So I do NOT want to turn off "All In" on all other synth tracks and instead restrict them all to just one controller input (eg mini-keyboard), because that would render my other two controllers (eg master-keyboard & knob-controller) totally useless. I need that knob-controller to be always available for the selected track, and I dont want to be poking into a dropdown menu every time I switch from the mini-keyboard to the master-keyboard.

So that leaves restricting by midi channel.

Idk, honestly I expect that doing it by midi channel is going to cause problems down the line but we'll see. It means reconfiguring all my midi knob/fader controllers to transmit on channel 1 if they are to be used for midi rather than "remote", and I expect that's going to cause CC conflicts that need resolving.

[wehkah]

Maybe your controller have a controller script for Ableton, if not you can try to make your own. - https://help.ableton.com/hc/en-us/artic ... ace-script

[abiah]

Thanks but the knob-controller is not remote controlling ableton, as it's controlling VSTi UI parameters via midi C (ie the mapping is handled by the VSTi, not by ableton). So users creating their own custom control scripts isn't a workaround, the problem remains.

Moreoever, it's also a massive expenditure of time & mental effort. I've already spent 50+ hours of my life writting custom controller scripts so I'd like to never expend any more life energy on that.

[[jur]]

[Moved to the FW forum]