Ableton Forum

Ableton Live 11.3

Frequently when I attempt to edit the volume on a given track, when replayed, the fader peak value will change.

For example, assume I have set my peak level to 0 DB and some point in the track, it clips to +.2.00 db

I stop play, reposition 3-4 beats behind the clip point, make sure the fader volume has dropped to zero and replay. Now it's displayed at some level below 0 DB and not clipping.

This appears to be inconsistent but it does occur frequently. It also seems to involve smaller changes in the volume.

Might be caused by some non-synched time-based effect (phaser, chorus, flanger etc...).
Solutions:
- give your tracks more headroom so you clip a channel at eg -3-4dB (I'd go lower, but you get the point).
Don't try to make everything be the closest to 0dB. You'd rather push your speakers' volume up and mix with more headroom
If you want to push everything it's mostly only relevant before rendering your track, and you'll do it on the Main.
- put a Saturator in Digital mode at the end of your tracks' chain to clip those peaks.

I know it may seems odd to push zero DB but the sources I am currently dealing with have a very low volume level. They are a selection of amateur-recorded, live sessions on stereo cassette tapes. When importing them, I pushed the input gain as much as I could but the volume level was still very low.

During the remix, here is how I attempted to boost the volume as close as possible to normal listening levels. Please remember I am a rookie still learning

• I balanced the volume of the two tracks setting the track volume of the loudest track to zero DB

• Along with Delay and Reverb, I added the EQ effect to the Return track and pushed the volume a bit more using the EQ gain

• I kept the Return track volume as close to zero DB as possible without clipping

• I then did the same with the Master volume

• Lastly, where there were some major peaks of 2-5DB I used the Utility Gain effect to lower them. This prevented me from losing even more volume

>> and you'll do it on the Main.
Can you explain?
>>put a Saturator in Digital mode at the end of your tracks' chain to clip those peaks
This sounds like an approach I should have used but I'm not familiar. Can you please explain a bit more?

MaxGain wrote: ↑

Mon Aug 05, 2024 5:54 am

• I balanced the volume of the two tracks setting the track volume of the loudest track to zero DB

You should rather boost the source's volume by:
- using the clip gain fader (in the bottom left corner when the bottom clip/device panel is open with a clip selected)
- you could instead use a Utility to boost the volume, but clip gain is a better workflow imo. Then use some compression, eq or whatever's needed.
Make sure that the track's level meter doesn't go over the fader's setting, i.e its little arrow, no matter what the fader is set at.
This good practice gain staging, that way when you've done this with every track, it's very easy to balance everything with the tracks' volume faders.

MaxGain wrote: ↑

Mon Aug 05, 2024 5:54 am

• Along with Delay and Reverb, I added the EQ effect to the Return track and pushed the volume a bit more using the EQ gain

You have a return with just an EQ, or are you eqing the delay and/or reverb?
Because a return with just an EQ will probably produce "weird" phase interaction. It's usually not something you'd do, but creating is about breaking the rules, so go with your guts.

MaxGain wrote: ↑

Mon Aug 05, 2024 5:54 am

>> and you'll do it on the Main.
Can you explain?

If all your tracks summed to the Main track make the Main meter display eg -14dB it's not a problem at all (and might acutally be a better practice, though -14 is an example and might be excessive), this is digital sound. You can then boost this signal using a Utility on your Main track.


What's not supposed to be clipping is the Master because that's what is converted to analog by your speakers. A track's meter is different that a Main track's meter, mainly because a track goes to the Main, not to the speakers directly.

That's overly simplified, and maybe not explained clearly. You should check for a few gain staging articles, or even YT (find "reputable" mixing channels, because it's easy to come across wrong informations too!)

The cassette deck outputs were routed through the Focusrite Scarlett interface so I controlled the input gain there, never wanting to cause distortion in the interface. The Focusrite output never came close to clipping the Ableton track faders.

My return track had, in this order: EQ3, Delay, Reverb

Track 1 had the left stereo input channel and track 2 had the right channel. There was nothing additional on the tracks i.e. no clips

I never clipped the Master gain but also assumed I should not be clipping the individual track and return track gain as well, right?

Also I believe that in the Return track, Ableton automatically gain stages the outputs between the effects?