Ableton Live on Linux (PREEMPT_RT)

Discuss music production with Ableton Live.
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stotes
Posts: 3
Joined: Sat Jul 15, 2023 12:12 am

Ableton Live on Linux (PREEMPT_RT)

Post by stotes » Mon Nov 25, 2024 12:20 pm

With the recent release of Linux Kernel 6.12, something monumental has happened for the world of audio production: PREEMPT_RT support has been fully integrated into the mainline kernel. For those who may not be aware, this means real-time processing in Linux is now on par with, and in some cases even better than, other platforms. Lower latency, better prioritization of audio tasks, and smoother performance under heavy load make Linux an increasingly attractive option for professional audio applications.

Why isn't Ableton Live available natively for Linux?

Ableton is Already Using Linux (Push 3 Standalone)
The Push 3 Standalone runs on a customized Linux operating system. This tailored version of Linux powers a standalone version of Ableton Live, proving that Ableton's developers already have experience adapting their software for Linux.

If Ableton can make this work for the Push 3, doesn’t that mean the foundation is already there for a Linux-native version of Ableton Live? The fact that it’s been done for the Push 3 shows there’s technical feasibility. What's stopping Ableton from taking the next step and releasing a Linux version for the broader community?

Why PREEMPT_RT and Linux Kernel 6.12 Are a Game-Changer
The integration of PREEMPT_RT in the mainline kernel is a huge step forward for Linux as a real-time operating system. This feature allows audio processing tasks to run with higher priority, reducing latency and improving performance for audio software like DAWs. Real-time audio processing on Linux is no longer a niche capability; it's something any DAW could take advantage of right out of the box.
  • Lower Latency:
    Audio software requires low latency to ensure real-time processing of audio streams without dropouts, glitches, or delays. The PREEMPT_RT kernel reduces worst-case latencies by allowing higher-priority audio processing tasks to preempt other system tasks quickly and consistently.
  • Improved Timing Precision:
    Audio software relies heavily on precise timing, especially for MIDI, live performances, and synchronization of tracks. The real-time capabilities of PREEMPT_RT provide better determinism, ensuring that time-sensitive tasks are executed when needed without delay.
  • Smooth Performance Under Heavy Load:In standard kernels, audio workloads can be disrupted by other system activities, such as disk I/O or network traffic. PREEMPT_RT isolates high-priority tasks (like audio processing) from being delayed by such activities, resulting in smoother performance even when the system is under heavy load.
Why Linux Support Could Be Critical for Ableton

Changing Market Trends:
With Windows 10 reaching the end of its support lifecycle and many older devices being left behind by Windows 11’s hardware requirements, we’re already seeing a migration toward Linux. Many users are choosing Linux as a lightweight, privacy-respecting alternative to the increasingly closed Windows ecosystem.

Push for Privacy and Open Source:
People are concerned about privacy and vendor lock-in, especially with the rise of AI-driven surveillance baked into newer operating systems. Linux represents an open, transparent platform that aligns with these values.

Potential for Market Growth:
Sure, Linux may currently represent a smaller slice of the DAW user market, but it’s growing. By supporting Linux, Ableton could tap into this expanding audience and position itself as the DAW of choice for the open-source community.
Existing Ecosystem:

Linux already has native DAWs like Ardour, Bitwig, and Reaper (which is officially supported on Linux). This proves that there’s demand—and competition. Ableton is a leader in the DAW space, and adding Linux support could solidify its dominance across all platforms.

What Comes Next?
Ableton developers have previously stated that Linux support isn’t on the roadmap because of the "small user base." But with the market shifts happening now and Linux becoming a more viable audio production platform, I think it’s time for us as a community to revisit this conversation.

I believe a native Linux version of Ableton Live could mark a turning point—not just for Linux users but for Ableton as a forward-thinking leader in the industry. The tools are there. The market is growing. The opportunity is now.

Hokuspokus
Posts: 24
Joined: Fri Jul 12, 2024 9:56 pm

Re: Ableton Live on Linux (PREEMPT_RT)

Post by Hokuspokus » Tue Nov 26, 2024 10:23 pm

"small user base."
Yeah, and when big companies always use this as an excuse it won't change much and user base will stay small (or takes ages to grow).. Because what shall the "standard" user base do if their software is not running on Linux. They hardly have a choice. Classic chicken - egg problem.. :(

Taken this into account, it's actually crazy what the Open Source community has created over all the years. Nowadays coming up with software solutions that really make more and more (at least more than in the past) people move to Linux. Some kudos to Steam as well.. Or Reaper or Bitwig or u-he or ... So, @Ableton, there are some already :)

Beside, do you know if the main distros think about offering releases with PREEMPT_RT?
Right now, as far as I know, you still need to configure/enable it during kernel build and then compile the kernel yourself. That process indeed would stay a niche for Ableton users. Also, what I've read is, it likely won't be enabled in the standard releases of many distros as the real time scheduler has negative effects on the process handling during "normal" OS operation.

But don't get me wrong. Fully with you :)

Nekz
Posts: 22
Joined: Thu May 01, 2014 8:52 am

Re: Ableton Live on Linux (PREEMPT_RT)

Post by Nekz » Wed Nov 27, 2024 1:52 pm

+10000 for Linux support.

Every now and then this request comes up and still no interest.

A shame...

stotes
Posts: 3
Joined: Sat Jul 15, 2023 12:12 am

Re: Ableton Live on Linux (PREEMPT_RT)

Post by stotes » Thu Nov 28, 2024 7:10 pm

Hokuspokus wrote:
Tue Nov 26, 2024 10:23 pm
"small user base."
Yeah, and when big companies always use this as an excuse it won't change much and user base will stay small (or takes ages to grow).. Because what shall the "standard" user base do if their software is not running on Linux. They hardly have a choice. Classic chicken - egg problem.. :(

Taken this into account, it's actually crazy what the Open Source community has created over all the years. Nowadays coming up with software solutions that really make more and more (at least more than in the past) people move to Linux. Some kudos to Steam as well.. Or Reaper or Bitwig or u-he or ... So, @Ableton, there are some already :)

Beside, do you know if the main distros think about offering releases with PREEMPT_RT?
Right now, as far as I know, you still need to configure/enable it during kernel build and then compile the kernel yourself. That process indeed would stay a niche for Ableton users. Also, what I've read is, it likely won't be enabled in the standard releases of many distros as the real time scheduler has negative effects on the process handling during "normal" OS operation.

But don't get me wrong. Fully with you :)
I completely agree with the chicken/egg problem you pointed out. However, considering that Ableton already created an "egg" of sorts with the Push 3 running a custom Linux, it shows that the foundation for Linux compatibility is already there. Sure, the Push 3 is a tailored, standalone environment, but it proves that some work has already been done on Linux compatibility in-house. Why not build on that momentum and allocate resources to supporting a few key distros? Even limited support for mainstream options like Arch, Ubuntu or Fedora could go a long way in growing a user base.

The Linux community has a strong reputation for making finicky things work and openly sharing their progress. With that in mind, the expected level of support for a Linux version of Ableton Live would likely be tempered and community-driven. Many Linux users understand the diversity of the ecosystem and wouldn't expect perfection out of the gate.

Regarding PREEMPT_RT, now that it’s part of the mainline kernel as of 6.12, I’d expect most major distros to eventually include it by default, removing the need to patch and compile kernels manually. Once PREEMPT_RT becomes standard across distros, it will further solidify Linux as a viable platform for professional audio work. Ableton supporting Linux now could position them well.

If Ableton Live were officially supported on Linux, I’m sure it would attract not just existing Linux users but also those looking to move away from Windows or macOS for performance, privacy, or customization reasons (like myself).

keyman_sam
Posts: 28
Joined: Fri Mar 23, 2012 6:59 am

Re: Ableton Live on Linux (PREEMPT_RT)

Post by keyman_sam » Sat Nov 30, 2024 6:08 pm

I'd rather they fix the perf issues for Mac/Win than go off another rabbit hole. I don't think people realize how expensive it is to maintain an application for a specific platform/architecture. It's not a case of "let's release this for linux and we're done". It's a rabbit hole that drains resources. The move from Intel to ARM in itself, would have been quite an expensive move (resource wise).

I was sorely disappointed when my perfectly functioning Live 9 (rosetta) on M1 suddenly stopped working after an update. I was forced to upgrade to Live 12 (or I'd have kept working on v9). I didn't complain because I realize the non-trivial dev effort for ARM compatibility. I still don't think they've quite nailed it yet. Better to polish the product for the 99.9% user base than try to help the 0.1% and end up failing on both sides.

grrrz
Posts: 165
Joined: Mon Dec 28, 2020 1:54 pm

Re: Ableton Live on Linux (PREEMPT_RT)

Post by grrrz » Sun Dec 01, 2024 11:53 am

I don't see it happening simply because as keyman_sam said it takes a lot of ressources to do so (as well as a new need for support; and support for linux will be more challenging due to the multiple distros people are using); but we can always dream. I also feel like there's a potential for a full "ableton" distro that would include live from scratch with all the audio optimizations but again I don't see it being a commercial product. For now I use sometimes pure data on embedded computers (like the raspberry pi); I know max introduced ways to work with raspberry too; but for a full production system for now it's gonna be alternatives of sort like reaper. Don't know how live is performing in wine though; I know it was possible at some point.

grrrz
Posts: 165
Joined: Mon Dec 28, 2020 1:54 pm

Re: Ableton Live on Linux (PREEMPT_RT)

Post by grrrz » Sun Dec 01, 2024 12:08 pm

I completely agree with the chicken/egg problem you pointed out. However, considering that Ableton already created an "egg" of sorts with the Push 3 running a custom Linux, it shows that the foundation for Linux compatibility is already there.

yeah but it makes a huge difference to have a purpose built close ecosystem like the push and a general purpose software like ableton that needs to run on any configuration that people may run. but who knows. If somehow linux gains traction in the general population through a more commercial distro that could change things. (but why would it? aren't people still using windows massively?)

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