Seamless loop playback doesn't work in Arrangement View

[Gavin]

I noticed that Live doesn't have the ability to play a seamless loop in Arrangement View without adding a little pop sound each time playback crosses the loop point. At that point, the audio cuts to zero very briefly (enough to be audible) when it should be a perfectly smooth transition.

By "seamless loop" I mean, for example, a wav file where the last sample in the file continues into the first sample, like what you get when you record a tail using the overdub mode of a looper.

Session View doesn't have the same problem. It plays back seamless loops perfectly without even having to use the Fade button on the clip. But as soon as I drag the clip into Arrangement View, this starts happening.

Just wondering if others have noticed this.

[Gavin]

Here is a short video demo illustrating the issue: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cMsbfoj53Ak

[assertfail]

Certainly noticed

It's really annoying

The sort of work around is to disable time stretch and remove the auto fades ( if enabled ) and duplicate the clip instead of looping when in the arrangement.

Then it will loop nicely.

But since looping is really the usp of Ableton they should have worked this ( and so many other things related ) out first

[pottering]

There is a "Fixed an issue with inconsistent fades when Arrangement loop would coincide with a playing Session clip loop" listed in the beta 12.2b14 Release Notes, seems it could be this issue,

[Gavin]

The sort of work around is to disable time stretch and remove the auto fades ( if enabled ) and duplicate the clip

Thanks, that is a workable option. The workaround I'm using is to load my loop into a Sampler device with Sustain Mode set to Loop. Sampler is capable of seamless looping. Then I work with MIDI clips in the Arrangement View instead of working directly with audio clips.

There is a "Fixed an issue with inconsistent fades when Arrangement loop would coincide with a playing Session clip loop" listed in the beta 12.2b14 Release Notes, seems it could be this issue

I have tested in Live 12.2b18 and it does not fix the issue. That note did look promising though. Thanks for calling it out.

[assertfail]

Thanks, that is a workable option. The workaround I'm using is to load my loop into a Sampler device with Sustain Mode set to Loop. Sampler is capable of seamless looping. Then I work with MIDI clips in the Arrangement View instead of working directly with audio clips.

Of course, That works too

[[jur]]

There is a "Fixed an issue with inconsistent fades when Arrangement loop would coincide with a playing Session clip loop" listed in the beta 12.2b14 Release Notes, seems it could be this issue

I have tested in Live 12.2b18 and it does not fix the issue. That note did look promising though. Thanks for calling it out.

Then it'd be great if you could report to Support!

[Gavin]

Yes, I have reported the issue to Ableton Support.

[yur2die4]

Just curious if maybe the position of the warp marker might be a factor. If it is in another spot do you have the pop in the same spot of the loop?

[Gavin]

maybe the position of the warp marker might be a factor

I can confirm that none of the following make a difference:

• Clip warp marker position
• Clip start position
• Clip HiQ mode
• Audio device sample rate
• Audio device buffer size

[Gavin]

If anyone is interested in reproducing the test, I've uploaded the project used in my earlier demo video here: https://grough.com/AbletonSeamlessLoopTest.zip

[assertfail]

The eventuality that you can somehow end up with DC clicks in your recorded arrangement even though you have verified your session makes me not trust this software

[RobrechtV]

If I un-warp the clip, then warp and loop it again, I don't hear the clicks anymore. Don't know if that helps?

[Gavin]

If I un-warp the clip, then warp and loop it again, I don't hear the clicks anymore. Don't know if that helps

I can't reproduce this. When I un-warp, then warp and loop it again, I still hear clicks.

[Gavin]

Ableton Support have reproduced the issue. They closed the ticket insisting it's a problem with the audio clip we have been testing with, and not a problem with the playback engine. I provided instructions for them to independently verify the seamlessness of the test clip, but they conveniently left that point out of their summary when closing the issue.

Based on the audio file you provided and the steps you've outlined, we've been able to reproduce the issue in Live's Arrangement View exactly as you described. As far as we can tell, the click or pop seems to occur right when the playhead returns to the loop start point, and if the audio itself contains the artifact at that location, Live will faithfully play that back each time it loops … That means if there’s any discontinuity in the waveform at the loop boundary, even a subtle one, the artifact can become audible on each repeat.

To be clear, the test loop waveform has no discontinuity at the loop boundary. That's what makes it seamless. This is easy to verify using software that performs seamless loop playback correctly (you can even verify in Live's Session View by disabling Fade on the clip).

I got the feeling they just wanted to close the issue, so I let it go. I will continue to use Sampler as a workaround.