Ableton Forum

Hi y'all,

I just got Max and I'm pretty excited about it. I told myself a year ago I wouldn't get it until I got Logic sorted. Logic is as sorted as it has to be.

If anyone has any suggestions for a nice 12 step program to help wrap my head around this wierd-wild stuff (said like Ed McMahon,) I would totally appreciate your hooking a brother up!

I want to start out with effects-> drum machines-> synthesizers-> automation-manipulation-utilities-> animation (Jitters.)

Would love some feedback. Even if it is just the title of a good book on C++.

I ask you all because we are cut from a similiar cloth (imo,) and my feet are not wet in MAX yet.

Most importantly, I want to "RTFM's" before I start bothering people for help!

Thanks y'all, you'r the greatest!

tutes, dood

I'm a reaktor newb, and the best advice I can give you in a wet-footed spirit is to start by making a prioritized list of "things that would be really cool to do in max". That way you can target your work from the beginning, and you'll probably be able to see more possibilities in your work and others.

First, work your way through the "Max Tutorials & Topics" PDF. Do not skip this.

Then once you have a grasp of the basic Max concepts, and have built some stuff, tackle the "MSP Tutorials & Topics" PDF.

Every object in Max/MSP has a help-patch, accessed by option-clicking the object (unlocked patch). The help patch itself is unlockable, so you can pick it apart to see how it works.

These are all good pieces of advice.

Tutorials and examples are of KEY importance...

next, get some ideas of what you want to accomplish, because just setting off programming with this program can send you into an abyss of wonder.

You may find the Max book useful, its called "Composing Interactive Music" and its pink. by Todd Winkler. Very helpful to get an idea of whats available...what others have done. It also has a cd with TONS of patches.

Finally, get a gmail account, and join the mailing list. Some of the most enlightened minds in computer music cruise the mailing list, and if you ever have a problem, there's nothing like getting the guy who developed the program's input.

Get busy!! This is a hobby that gets better with age, so rock out, man!!

I just love Max SOOOOO much, i get really excited when new users get involved!!

I remember how psyched I was when I learned about max....

wow. MAX/MSP makes Reaktor look like a joke. Good Luck learning it, I've heard from a few that it takes a while to learn. The learning curve is steep.

MAX/MSP is great though. Live was created in MAX/MSP, and look at how wonderful that program is!

I hope to learn it in the future...but you have to have ALOTTA time on your hand to do something like that. And personally, i'd rather be making music that spending 9 days making a tone generator that can beep "mary had a little lamb" in Sine waves.

anyways good luck!

Thank you all for your time and feedback. I just got the serial number and the package arrives this weekend!

unsuccessful handshake wrote: tutes, dood

I'm not sure what this means!?... But thanks!

Machinate wrote:I'm a reaktor newb, and the best advice I can give you in a wet-footed spirit is to start by making a prioritized list of "things that would be really cool to do in max". That way you can target your work from the beginning, and you'll probably be able to see more possibilities in your work and others.

Totally.

I had originally said "I want to start out with effects-> drum machines-> synthesizers-> automation-manipulation-utilities-> animation (Jitters.)," but I think for now, after reading some articles by Darwin Grosse on creating basic synths, that
I will start out trying to do whatever the manual suggests! And then I will either try to create some basic send patches (I've spent the last year in the navels of Logic and Live) and then perhaps a minimal synth.

My head has been spinning with countless, yet very basic, potential first steps, and I have been writing down my questions- but, you are right- I will consciously document and observe and make necessary rearrangements with my approach, as well as my priorities. Everything I did (or didn't ) learn when I worked in a Lab, in terms of note keeping etc, I will do my best to apply here! Otherwise I will become another bad sterotype with a fast debit card!

johnpitcairn wrote: First, work your way through the "Max Tutorials & Topics" PDF. Do not skip this.

Then once you have a grasp of the basic Max concepts, and have built some stuff, tackle the "MSP Tutorials & Topics" PDF.

Every object in Max/MSP has a help-patch, accessed by option-clicking the object (unlocked patch). The help patch itself is unlockable, so you can pick it apart to see how it works.

You got it boss! BTW, it was a combination of the Lemur, a Link that Machinate posted about Circuit Bending, some music I recently listened to by Computo, and finally, especially your LC Xmu that recently pushed me over the edge to buy MAX.

Once I realized how much more power I could get out of my microkontrol with your software, I realized that I could potentially make the most most of this interim before macintels come out (no lappy till then, Logic pro says- "Chill,LOfA! You really don't want to start playing out without me... do you!?) and before I can afford the still, too-new-to-judge, Lemur, I might as welll make the most out of my time and budget. And, perhaps keep building on the hardware that I already have, and maybe make it do what I would have wanted it to do from the begining!

computo wrote: These are all good pieces of advice.

Tutorials and examples are of KEY importance...

next, get some ideas of what you want to accomplish, because just setting off programming with this program can send you into an abyss of wonder.

I feel it. I'm sort of telling myself that if I ever want to make music on the Lemur like I'm Jordi La Forge in an Engineering crisis (could not think of a more appropriate analogy,) I need to understand the material that I am working with. I will certainly try to make a clear path and pursue it! All of this input (and anymore-thanks, and please!) is really helpful.

computo wrote: You may find the Max book useful, its called "Composing Interactive Music" and its pink. by Todd Winkler. Very helpful to get an idea of whats available...what others have done. It also has a cd with TONS of patches.

Google- here I come!

computo wrote: Finally, get a gmail account, and join the mailing list. Some of the most enlightened minds in computer music cruise the mailing list, and if you ever have a problem, there's nothing like getting the guy who developed the program's input.

Get busy!! This is a hobby that gets better with age, so rock out, man!!

I love Gmail. Totally.

liquidfx wrote: wow. MAX/MSP makes Reaktor look like a joke. Good Luck learning it, I've heard from a few that it takes a while to learn. The learning curve is steep.

Warnings about learning curves serve a great function, in terms of preparation and maintaining ones dedicatede interest, focus, and stamina. Letting them, or your fear of them get in the way does not-or at least that is what I have decided. There is no way that I need to buy a more powerful computer or more hardware than I already have to start personalizing my link between what I have in my head and the often compromised (especially in realtime) sound that comes out of my computer. Rather than weep because I can't get as many instances of beat repeat as the next guy, I want to find away to make a handful of various oscillators, filters do what they are supposed to.

liquidfx wrote: MAX/MSP is great though. Live was created in MAX/MSP, and look at how wonderful that program is!

I know... I can't seem to stop looking! As great as MAX is, I wonder if I ever would have considered it, had my intention not been to add on to my experience with the most interfacable instrument I know of (Live.)

liquidfx wrote: I hope to learn it in the future...but you have to have ALOTTA time on your hand to do something like that. And personally, i'd rather be making music that spending 9 days making a tone generator that can beep "mary had a little lamb" in Sine waves.

anyways good luck!

Thank you so much! My plan is as follows: Concentrate on getting finished with school, set aside time for specific, planned out MAX projects in the weekend. And everytime I catch myself reading a flame war, Sasha thread, or doing the MF"ing crossword at work, I will read another pdf, chapter, or whatever in MAX.

Thanks again for the support!

Yeeeee-Hah!

I recently jumped on the boat too, demoed MAX for a few days and then bought it (thanks god there are student prices).
Since I insalled the official version I can't get Max started, everytime I try to launch it windows crashes, blue screen.
It could be a bad window prorting I don't know, my computer runs lperfectly with live 5.0.1...
Anyway I'm waiting a reply from cycling 74, I really want to get into max deeper as soon as possible as I feel it will be very exciting.
Lofa, spend lot of time to go thru the tutorials which comes with the program and be patient, it will take some time prior to have some good resutlts i guess but once we will have mastered max we will feel proud I guess.

all the best and stay groovy

In case it hasn't been said enough, do the tutorials. In many ways, I think they are the greatest set of tutorials I've ever used. Work through the Max tutorials, and then move on to MSP. Even though it sounds like your more interested in audio, the Max tutorials walk you through the basics of using both sets of objects. Many of the MSP objects have the exact same functions as Max ones except that they handle audio signals instead of midi ones.

You don't need to know C++ at all. If you want to get really, REALLY deep you can write your own objects in C. But you shouldn't need to do that for a long time.

If you go through the tutorials, it's not as hard as everyone says. It definitely would not take 9 days to make a mary-had-a-little-lamb patch (I know it was probably a joke, but still...)

Also, it really helps me (and most other people I know) to break down what you are trying to do into tasks and take them on one at a time.

minimal wrote: all the best and stay groovy

Certainly, and please keep in touch!

Peter of http://www.createdigitalmusic.com/ wrote a tutorial for Computer Music mag (see http://www.createdigitalmusic.com/index ... &Itemid=44), maybe worth checking out?

Roland

bigbadotis wrote:IMany of the MSP objects have the exact same functions as Max ones except that they handle audio signals instead of midi ones.

Just to be clear, the Max objects handle numbers (integer and float), lists, and symbols. That's it. There's no such thing as a "MIDI" message in Max, it's just numbers or lists as soon as it hits Max. Thinking of it as MIDI messages can often be counterproductive

LOFA, if you have fooled with the Logic environment you'll find Max conceptually somewhat similar, but with a much finer-grained approach, extensive built in time-based functionality (yay), and a right-to-left precedence rather than the environment's top-to-bottom precedence.

liquidfx wrote:MAX/MSP is great though. Live was created in MAX/MSP, and look at how wonderful that program is!

??? Live created in MAX? You mean the basic "ideas" or the complete program??? I think that an app like live should be made in C/C++...

I would suggest you also look at Theory and Techniques of Electronic Music,
by Miller Puckette (the original developer of MAX). He has since
come up with another program called Pure Data (PD). The text above
was written for PD but the concepts and examples are easily transferable
to a MAX environment.

http://crca.ucsd.edu/~msp/techniques.htm