Ableton Forum

Hi Masters,

Ive serached all day on the database, and I didnt really found what I need.
Im a newbie, so take it easy pls!

the sound quality (punch, brightness, sub bass and the loudness itself) of my live set, when I get into a club, is much worse than Vinyl records my DJ friends play. So it gets really annoying and disapointing to decrease the sound quality THAT MUCH when I get into the DJ booth.

Any tips to avoid this? I mean: maybe there are low CPU usage VSTs (exciter, what does it do anyway?) to put on the master channel: which do you recomend? compression tips? equalization maybe is the key.. it is really strange, because here in my house I compose plugging my equipement into a sony stereo (aux in), which I know is not the recommended set up, but doesnt affect the audio quality either. but when I get into a club.. it is really clear the quality difference.

Please Help!

Thanks, Paulo Catran

get better monitors so you can actually hear how your music truley sounds.

It's all in the EQ and compression. Try compressing your drums seperately. There are some great threads on this and other music forums about frequencies and EQing. Try throwing lives 4 EQ on the master and play with it just to see as you are probably used to hearing your mix through monitors or phones and house PA's sound a lot differen.

Many top clubs also use outboard Apogee DA converters on their pioneer CD players to increase punch, definition, and stereo imaging.

Most consumer/portable audio cards DA converters are crap. I would bet you would hear considerable improvements by adding something like an Apogee mini DAC as your final DA converter (SPDIF>MiniDAC).

This could also help in the preparation of your mixes by giving you accurate audio info.

I use an ART Pro VLA tube leveling amplifier for my gigs as the last thing in my signal path. I also use outboard synth for much of my bass sounds.

High quality Mogami cable is also a good investment in your sound quality.

It will never sound as good as quality analogue sytems (vinyl), but you can get very pleasing results if you closely examine every single element in your signal chain.

Eq & maybe compression/limiting (with a long release) on the master for a start, and maybe saturator on the the mid range punch preset also for a bit of warmth and.. um... whats the word... thats it, punch!

check out using side chain compression (preset in compressor II) across a submaster channel for your drums and bass to go through as well. can give you that big kick sound if used right.

you can fiddle with things like bbe sonic maximizer etc but really they'll not make a huge difference, and it's too easy to go too far with them and have things sound fake.

also, make SURE you're plugged into line inputs, NOT phono inputs on the mixer as everything you do will sound crappy no matter what (unfortunately talking from experience here.... DOH!)

what you are experiencing is named 'colouring'

Every set of speakers, every amp, every cable and every room add to this colouring.

High Quality monitors are the first thing you'll need. And a proper listening environment.

It not a bad thing to do a sound check before the show and check the sound in the room itself. then apply eq where needed. If you can't do this beforehand, do this in your first song ...

One of my friends is a dj (vinyl type) and even he walks into the room during his first five records, so he knows what is happening to the sound in the room.

Are you using MP3s, or lossless files such as WAV, AIF, or FLAC?

Hi Guys,

thanks to all!
I am using normalized-on-Sound Forge 6.0 wav files.

I guess then one thing is in common: add a limiter and a saturator as last processor on the Master output.. is this right? then, do you have any recommended settings? Comp 1 and 2 are not really Limiters, are them? so, are there alternatives?

Thanks, Paulo

If it sounds good on your sony stereo but not when you play out then you need some decent flat response studio monitors. Otherwise it's just luck that any of your mixes will sound right on different sound systems. beleive me I went through the same headache. Also, never write your music just on headphones, I made that mistake too!

Damo~*

If you are doing club/dance music you are going to need compression - lots of it. Commercial music is heavily compressed and/or limited. Your own stuff is never going to sound as loud and punchy if you don't do your compression right.

You can compensate for your lack of proper monitors by comparing commerical stuff against your own on your home system. Rip a song you really like the sound of, normalize etc and then play (in Live or soundforge etc). Compare. Try to emulate.

try the vintage warmth plugin from psp.very nice

As John Gordon said,

PSP Vintage Warmer. Try the demo, you won't be able to help yourself from buying it.

Not only does the sound punch, it smooths out the levels when transitioning between tracks. It's very customizable to.

Try it!

It's possible you are making an apples/oranges comparison.

You aren't telling us if your live set is the same exact same music as your friend's vinyl or not or if you made the music.

If it's your own original music you are comparing two things simultaneously, which is confusing the point of your post. What are you comparing?

- the difference between digital/vinyl mediums when playing back the same music?

-or-

- the difference in your production techniques and commercial production techniques (eq, compression, sound production). In other words, different songs that are also on different sources.

Ironically, there's also the possibility the music on your friend's vinyl could have been produced in Ableton Live!

On top of that, if you are comparing the same song...what was your original source material? Was the original source material vinyl?

Good sound in a club is never the result of plug ins or expensive hardware, it is the result of experience. If a record sounds good in a club it does so, because the producer knows how to produce for a club and an experienced mastering enginner knows how to EQ and compress in order to get the maximum out of it.

I heard mindblowing club music made with Reason. NOTHING but reason.

Try making simple tracks at home, try to get a chance to play them back over a club PA and make notes. Is the bass boooomy ? If so, does it help to change the tuning or the decay of the Bassdrum ? Is the snare loud but sounds fine or does it hurt? If it hurts, does it help to notch out a specific frequency?

If you own a laptop, take your live set to a smal club, and adjust it there, not in the DJ booth, where you can`t hear anything of the club PA but in the middle of the dancefloor. If you manage to get it sound great there, don`t touch the set and move to the DJ booth. Get used to the sound there, which is usually not at all like on the dancefloor. Try to get an idea of how it has to sound in the DJ booth, or where ever you play so it still sound good on the dancefloor.

All this takes time and experience, just as any other musical skill. But it can be lots of satisfaction once it sounds great !!!!

Robert

I got too wrapped up in plug-ins, tweaking, etc. All I ended up doing was wasting time searching for improvements in sound that nobody else but me would even notice.

I stripped things down to basics and made a simple Audio Effect Group to tweak each track. Now I can concentrate on creative content rather than wasting time.

Checking your sound on a decent PA is critical. I use my own PA, which is good as I know what it sounds like. It's important that it's tuned to the room, too. It's a bit more challenging plugging into somone else's system.

I think the bottom line is that if your basic content is good and the PA is decent, the output will be good. If it's bad, don't waste your time trying to salvage it - "garbage in, garbage out!"

Cure the cause rather than the effect. My opinion only!