midi "select on launch", live looping

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quandry
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midi "select on launch", live looping

Post by quandry » Tue Oct 25, 2005 8:03 pm

It is a great step forward that "select on launch" via midi/key was re-introduced into Live 5.0.2b6. However, the implementation is somehow different than Live 3. Live 3's select on launch ALWAYS selects a clip that you launch into recording, regardless of whether you use mouse or midi/key, regardless of where you last clicked. The advantage of this to me is that since the clip is selected, you can delete it if necessary--this is a crucial part of trying to do live looping with Live (though bomes and midi ox are still needed to delete with a foot pedal). For whatever reason, the re-implemented "select on launch" via midi/key in 5.0.2b6 is not the same. If you launch recording of a new clip with midi/key, the clip is only truly "selected" and thus instantly deletable when you have clicked on the clip grid with the mouse immediately prior to launching the recording of the clip (or you can get to the clip grid with alt-arrows). If you have clicked with the mouse ANYWHERE other than on a slot in the clip grid, the new clip that you launched into recording via midi/key will NOT be selected, not be deletable. This is different than 3, and not useful for live looping. For example, if you used the mouse to drop in a new effect or change an effect parameter, then launched a new clip to record with a foot pedal, there is no reasonable way to delete the clip you are recording without the mouse.

I am definitely happy that Ableton has addressed the loss of midi "select on launch" since version 3 by bringing it back (to a degree) in the 5.0.2 betas, and now 5.0.2. However, to be truly useful in all live looping situations, it needs to ALWAYS happen, just like version 3. It shouldn't matter which part of the interface is "highlighted" (clip grid, clip/effects view, etc.)--launching a clip via midi should select it on launch regardless, thus allowing hands-free deletion of flubbed clips on-the-fly. As it is now in 5.0.2, this only works if prior to launching the clip, the clip grid portion of the session view is "highlighted" with the box around it. If not, trying to delete the flubbed clip in the middle of recording it using a "delete" keystroke (and using Bomes/midi ox or controlaid to map a midi foot pedal to "delete" for hands free looping) does not work.

Live 3 is the best looper in the world imho. Live 5, with all of the added effects and features (like resizable session tracks) would obviously top 3, all that is missing is true midi "Select on launch", 100% of the time, no if, ands, or butts. To make Live 5 the world’s best looper, and tap into a whole new market, Ableton should:

1. Make midi "select on launch" work 100% of the time, just like version 3. This will allow live loopers to always be able to delete clips on the fly, regardless or workflow or their last mouse/midi controller move. As some people don't want this feature for the way their sets work (especially non-live-loopers), this should/could be an option in the prefs menu.

2. Give us a midi mappable "delete" button, which might be hidden until midi map is turned on. Then a little "delete" button could appear, and you could map a midi note on/off or midi cc to the button. Whenever this midi pedal/button is pressed, it will delete the currently selected clip, just like hitting the "delete" key on the keyboard. This would let us avoid having to use Bomes/ox on pc, and controlaid on mac to be able to delete flubbed clips on the fly.

These two minor features are preventing Live 5 from being the end-all be-all best looping device on the planet. Without feature 1 above, Live 5 is only really a looper for perfect people who never make mistakes, and makes Live 5 lack one of the 3 basic features of all hardware looping pedals--undo/delete. I sure hope Ableton continues to pursue the re-implementation of true, 100% of the time, midi "select on launch", like version 3. If they can make 5 behave like 3 in this regard, (or at least make it happen in Live 6), it will have no rival in the live looping world. It is soooo close. Pretty please,

Ryan

P.S. sorry for the novella, but it seems there was maybe some confusion of why this feature is needed, or how it should be (re) implemented, I just want to try and fully explain the need for it for live looping with Live.
Dell Studio XPS 8100 Windows 7 64-bit, 10 GB RAM. RME Multiface, Avalon U5 & M5, Distressor, Filter Factory, UC33e, BCR-2000, FCB1010, K-Station, Hr 824 & H120 sub, EZ Bus, V-Drums, DrumKat EZ, basses, guitars, pedals... http://www.ryan-hughes.net

Per Boysen
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Post by Per Boysen » Fri Oct 28, 2005 12:20 pm

I fully agree with evrything Ryan says :!:
Greetings from Sweden

Per Boysen
http://www.perboysen.com

Surreal
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Post by Surreal » Sat Jun 09, 2007 2:41 am

+1

chapelier fou
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Post by chapelier fou » Sat Jun 09, 2007 9:00 am

+1!

Amaury
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Post by Amaury » Sat Jun 09, 2007 9:58 am

chapelier fou wrote:+1!
Hi,

If I got it right, we reintroduced the old 'select on launch' behaviour in Live 6, at least as afar as it is helpful in Ryan's case, and he reported being satisfied with the change. So, my question is: what is the remaining wish?

Regards,
Amaury
Ableton Product Team

quandry
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Post by quandry » Sat Jun 09, 2007 10:00 pm

The last thing to iron out is MIDI MAPPABLE "delete" (as in the computer qwerty keyboard's "delete" key). Right now, people using Live to loop instruments live in real time on stage need to use midi ox + Bomes on pc, or controlaid, midipipe, or whatever on macs to make an incoming midi signal act as the qwerty "delete" key in order to delete messed-up loops that you are recording on the fly. Not having to use 1 or 2 additional softwares to accomplish one simple task in Live would be good. All hardware looping pedals offer delete/undo right out of the box. Ableton should too, if they want to claim their product as a looping device. It seems like you could just make a hidden "delete" icon that would appear when you go into midi/key mapping mode that you could just assign a controller to and be done with it.

Thanks for fixing the select on launch in Live 6--loving it!

Ryan
Dell Studio XPS 8100 Windows 7 64-bit, 10 GB RAM. RME Multiface, Avalon U5 & M5, Distressor, Filter Factory, UC33e, BCR-2000, FCB1010, K-Station, Hr 824 & H120 sub, EZ Bus, V-Drums, DrumKat EZ, basses, guitars, pedals... http://www.ryan-hughes.net

Per Boysen
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Post by Per Boysen » Sat Jun 09, 2007 10:25 pm

Hi guys,

It's funny to see this four year old thread come to life again! Myself I gave up live looping in Live only and moved on to Mobius. One can run Mobius as a VST plug-in under Live/PC for taking advantage of both application's best features. A very complementary combo!
http://www.zonemobius.com/
Greetings from Sweden

Per Boysen
http://www.perboysen.com

chapelier fou
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Post by chapelier fou » Sun Jun 10, 2007 1:09 am

One can run Mobius as a VST plug-in under Live/PC for taking advantage of both application's best features. A very complementary combo!
Yeah , I tried it a year ago...
Can you correctly deal with mulitple outs?
As far as I remember, I had some GUI bugs, and some problems in MIDI assignement. Has it changed?

longjohns
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Post by longjohns » Sun Jun 10, 2007 3:18 am

isnt there an 'undo' which can be addressed via mackie control?

Per Boysen
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Post by Per Boysen » Sun Jun 10, 2007 8:06 am

chapelier fou wrote:
One can run Mobius as a VST plug-in under Live/PC for taking advantage of both application's best features. A very complementary combo!
Can you correctly deal with mulitple outs?
As far as I remember, I had some GUI bugs, and some problems in MIDI assignement. Has it changed?
Yes, you can use as many outputs you want. Mobius default is eight tracks but you can easily change that in an xml file's text. Don't know about any "GUI bugs in today's version, although the graphics are not very slick - so to say.
longjohns wrote:isnt there an 'undo' which can be addressed via mackie control?
Yes, UNDO and REDO can be addressed by anything that sends any MIDI that can be binded to the function. There is no limitation in how many times you can "undo", so you can in fact mangle a loop for an hour and then step back all through the history - and back again if you want, by the "redo" functinon.
Greetings from Sweden

Per Boysen
http://www.perboysen.com

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