Ableton Forum

I really like Arnold S. (governor of California) he's made some awesome movies, you may remember such classics as Conan the Barbarian, Conan the Destroyer, The Terminator 1,2 and 3, Total Recall and The Last Action Hero

but the oh how the mighty have fallen in my book - he's refusing Tookie Williams - the co-founder of the Crips who will be executed tonight after midnight for the alleged killings of some people a long time ago - plea to not be executed and change his sentence to life in prison.

Personally it comes down to politics and race on this one.

Tookie Williams has been nominated for the Nobel Peace Prize in literature several times for his writtings in childrens books to stay away from trouble


It just makes me sad (honestly) that we still live in a society that governs with death than justice - our justice system is built for the rich, the lighter skinned and the powerful...had Tookie been a white guy nominated for a Nobel Peace prize, he would probably be walkign around downtown LA right now...but no this is the Co-Founder of a street gang - people in their white bread neighborhoods would love to see this nogger get his justice! And Arnold S - considered a nigger in some parts of the country is giving into this bullshit


whatever - I'm pissed, sad and can't wait to get the fuck out of this lame as country - move to a island with Spanish speaking hotties, write beats and DJ at the local discotech for the rest of life - raises my kids somewhere that isn't dominated by the pure ignorance and hatred that is instilled on all of us from birth

fuck this place - I'm moving to Ibizia and living with Carl Cox

a

I think its less race and politics, as much as a sick fascination among the elite, with the death of normals like us.

There is no doubt in my mind that those who rule over us, gain an inner warmth from the denegration and destruction of the masses. Anything that kills our spirit, they are for it. And killing the innocent is one quick and easy way to bring us down.

But down run away from it, fight it. Jump down its throat. If you run, it will find you, no matter where you go.

Step one is remove the I.V. forcefeeding tube, called the Mainstream Media, from your arm, and start chewing the news for yourself. While there is no regurgitating all of it, thats the first step in spitting out that shit their shoveling into our veins.

somehow being an actor in a bunch of action movies is transferable to his relative mightyness in his role as governor?

this is exactly the kind of unfortunate thinking that got the doofus elected in the first place. ..not that we here in California don't have a long history of very poor decision criteria when it comes to elected officials.

anyway. i am right now guilty of doing the opposite of this but -- please, let's not discuss this here.

Arnold has nothing to do with it, don't be so simple minded. It's the state's fault for supporting capital punishment in the first place.

1 - He killed people.
2 - He co-founded a leading crime syndicate responsible for thousands of other murders
3 - He did it in a state with the death penalty.
4 - His books were written in jail, what else what he supposed to do? I could care less what he did to beg for his life or how he tried to repair the damage.

Then again, I'm against the death penalty but tookie is the last asshole I'd feel bad for falling to an unjust legal system.

I happen to support capital punishment as a deterrent, but only in cases where guilt is proven beyond reasonable doubt. IMO, it would clean up some of the evil filth in the world.

Black or white, rich or poor, it shouldn't matter. All should be treated equal.

Unfortunately, they're not. (Right, OJ?)

DeadlyKungFu wrote:Arnold has nothing to do with it, don't be so simple minded. It's the state's fault for supporting capital punishment in the first place.

1 - He killed people.
2 - He co-founded a leading crime syndicate responsible for thousands of other murders
3 - He did it in a state with the death penalty.
4 - His books were written in jail, what else what he supposed to do? I could care less what he did to beg for his life or how he tried to repair the damage.

Then again, I'm against the death penalty but tookie is the last asshole I'd feel bad for falling to an unjust legal system.

there always has to be one moron in the group.

Why a moron? Surely he's entitled to his opinion, just like you are.

an opinion based on one's lack of the facts is worth SHIT.

The fact is, Tookie has always professed his innocence, even his appelate court judge said the entire case was based on circumstancial evidence.

Maybe you should learn the facts of the case, rather than reciting the same mis-information you heard on the tv news.

I suppose you scoff at the millions of children whose lives have been steered clear of gang violence THANKS to Tookie.

Finally, Id love to see that video that I assume you have, of Tookie killing those folks, otherwise, I'll appreciate your moving on.

I liken DeadlyKungFu's opinion, to that of Fred Phelps, the God hates Fags preacher.

You can own your opinion, but that doesn't make it based on Truth or Facts.

If Williams hasn't been convicted of murder beyond reasonable doubt, I agree unreservedly that not only should he not be executed, but he should be released.

If he is guilty, writing books to deter others is commendable but trivial compared to the lives he took and should have no bearing on the outcome.

Again, my opinion, for what it's worth.

Guys guys pleeeeaase, before this degenerates into another flame-war. Try this really easy technique:

Critcise ideas. But don't criticise people for holding those ideas.

pleeeease....!!!! The forum was just starting to cheer up a bit. I personally don't know all the ins and outs of this, and I'd like to know more...

One more time, to get the best out of an internet discussion:

Critcise ideas. But don't criticise people for holding those ideas.

cheers,
p

again, a COMPLETE lack of understanding about the Clemency process.

I DOES NOT MATTER whether or not he committed the murders that he is convicted of.

What matters is the changes one makes once in Prison. The pathetic fact of all of this is, that Arnold has NEVER studied clemency, he has NO understanding of what clemency is for or means, for that matter. Clemency is granted to people who attempt to make a difference since their entrance into the prison system. If ANYONE has EVER done that, its Tookie.

You are witnessing the end of the Clemency process as a whole, when someone who is more worthy of Clemency than arguably ANY other prisoner, is denied and put to death.

computo wrote:an opinion based on one's lack of the facts is worth SHIT.

The fact is, Tookie has always professed his innocence, even his appelate court judge said the entire case was based on circumstancial evidence.

Maybe you should learn the facts of the case, rather than reciting the same mis-information you heard on the tv news.

I suppose you scoff at the millions of children whose lives have been steered clear of gang violence THANKS to Tookie.

Finally, Id love to see that video that I assume you have, of Tookie killing those folks, otherwise, I'll appreciate your moving on.

Is this why the 9th court of appeals ruled that he had not provided sufficient evidence that would have shown that he wasn't guilty beyond a reasonable doubt?

Because a man professes his innocence means that he should not be subjected to the rule of law and the evidence required to convict him?

Look - its quite possible that he did what he could with the time he had left - be a positive force in the world by trying to help. That's good. At least he is going to leave another legacy behind besides the crips.

But it doesn't necessarily erase the crime. It also doesn't change the ruling. If he's innocent, let him go. If he's not, then he has to face his punishment. He had that chance and the proof was there to convict him and it wasn't there to prove his innocence.

If I was Arnold, I would have granted him clemency and he would have stayed the rest of his days in jail as I wouldn't want the death of any man on my shoulders that had done no direct harm to me or my family. But that's not me up there - and frankly, Arnold doesn't have to do anything (as he chosen to do). The law and the process took care of that for him.

BTW, anyone can be nominated to a Nobel Peace Prize. Doesn't mean you deserve or are warranted it.

.02,

rob.

computo wrote:again, a COMPLETE lack of understanding about the Clemency process.

I DOES NOT MATTER whether or not he committed the murders that he is convicted of.

What matters is the changes one makes once in Prison. The pathetic fact of all of this is, that Arnold has NEVER studied clemency, he has NO understanding of what clemency is for or means, for that matter. Clemency is granted to people who attempt to make a difference since their entrance into the prison system. If ANYONE has EVER done that, its Tookie.

You are witnessing the end of the Clemency process as a whole, when someone who is more worthy of Clemency than arguably ANY other prisoner, is denied and put to death.

so sayeth you.

Right. C'mon. AS if you knew what legal assistance Arnold has..... the Governor of CA who spent this last week reviewing the case w/ his team - who is probably a lot smarter at analysis that you seem to indicate by your dogmatic statements.

Don't be so ridiculous here - Tookie is going to pay for the crime he committed by virtue of the process and laws enacted. You want change? Change the law. Changing the governor has no impact in these situations.