Playing vinyl sounds different to playing Wavs in Live, why?

markone · Post by **markone** » Thu Jan 05, 2006 11:30 am

When I DJ at home using vinyl, the sound is different to when I DJ using Live. Even though the volume levels are approximately the same the sound is not as full, bright, thick when playing Wavs through Live.

Is this merely to do with the different sound charcacteristics of vinyl and digital formats, or are there plug ins I should run over the master output in Live to achieve a similar sound output.

Any other tips would be greatly welcomed

Machinate · Post by **Machinate** » Thu Jan 05, 2006 11:33 am

How are the wave files? Did you record them yourself? If so, how?

sweetjesus · Post by **sweetjesus** » Thu Jan 05, 2006 11:48 am

vinyl and digital media are different beasts.. vinyl has a larger range of frequency that it can use in the lower registers... i think they call this bass response.. not sure of the correct terminlogy.

also the needle hitting vinyl adds a bit of harmonic distortion to the content, this is a natural and pleasing effect.

on top of the differences between digital and physical media, you have to also consider the fact that Live is applying digital time compression/expansion to stretch tracks out to the correct tempo and this can in turn also add some artifacts to the sound and remove certain characteristics.

olafmol · Post by **olafmol** » Thu Jan 05, 2006 12:01 pm

what kind of soundcard do you use for the recording and playback of your vinyl?

markone · Post by **markone** » Thu Jan 05, 2006 12:02 pm

Ok, to clarify

- I play vinyl from a Technics 1210 into a vestax mixer

- I play wavs from Live, through an M-Audio Firewire Audiophile Audio interface into the same vestax mixer

- The mixer is connected to a Sony amplifier and Mission Speakers.

- The Wav files are rips from CD, 16 bit, 41 000Khz. The same as the source, using Sound Forge or Wavelab.

- If I have the same tune on vinyl and CD (which is ripped to a Wav and put into Live) the Wav version sounds different to the version I have on vinyl when played through the same mixer, amlifier and speakers

Why would this be?

olafmol · Post by **olafmol** » Thu Jan 05, 2006 12:04 pm

markone wrote:The Wav files are just rips from CD, 16 bit, 41 000Khz. The same as the source, using Sound Forge or Wavelab.

When I have played a tune I have on vinyl and then the version ripped from CD, the differences are quite obvious.

and how does the ripped version in live compares to the CD? and how does the original CD version compare to the vinyl version?

Olaf

robin · Post by **robin** » Thu Jan 05, 2006 12:10 pm

The mastering process for vinyl and CD is quite different. For vinyl mastering you have to take into consideration the limitations of the media (one factor is that too much bass makes the needle jump out of the groove....all bass is usually mono too. CD/digital can handle this ok though).

For CD mastering they tend to shove a load of compression on there (look at the waveform the same track from vinyl and CD wioll look different). The percieved volume on a track mastered like that is gonna be higher.

For CD ripped tracks I usually turn the volume in the clip prefs down a little so it sits with my recorded vinyl better.

Dunno if that helps or not.

stinky · Post by **stinky** » Thu Jan 05, 2006 4:24 pm

Make sure all your clips are set to "Re-Pitch" (Don't forget to calculate the pitch difference when mixing tracks with large variations in BPM because this mode will change your pitch just like a TT or CDJ) and Hi-Q... that'll make a world of difference in the quality of sound. And you can use Saturator for a bit of warmth if you like. Cheers.

mike holiday · Post by **mike holiday** » Thu Jan 05, 2006 6:30 pm

they sound different

no doubt about it

BUT not everyone will notice they way you notice

(when you are playing for people)

its the age old analog vs digital debate

Moody · Post by **Moody** » Thu Jan 05, 2006 7:09 pm

Just add some tube warmth to the master and keep rockn. Otherwise they will always sound different. Is this good or is it bad? Nope.. . they are just different.

olafmol · Post by **olafmol** » Thu Jan 05, 2006 11:17 pm

still no answer: how does the CD version compare to the vinyl version? if you rip from CD you should be comparing to the CD (=the source) not to the vinyl

Olaf

djadonis206 · Post by **djadonis206** » Fri Jan 06, 2006 12:10 am

markone wrote:Ok, to clarify

- I play vinyl from a Technics 1210 into a vestax mixer

- I play wavs from Live, through an M-Audio Firewire Audiophile Audio interface into the same vestax mixer

- The mixer is connected to a Sony amplifier and Mission Speakers.

- The Wav files are rips from CD, 16 bit, 41 000Khz. The same as the source, using Sound Forge or Wavelab.

- If I have the same tune on vinyl and CD (which is ripped to a Wav and put into Live) the Wav version sounds different to the version I have on vinyl when played through the same mixer, amlifier and speakers

Why would this be?

I have a thoery - you're mixing vinyl through a DJ mixer - DJ mixers sound pretty analog, beefer etc

Try running your digital tracks through your mixer and see how that works

just a thoery

a

mike holiday · Post by **mike holiday** » Fri Jan 06, 2006 3:24 am

djadonis206 wrote:Try running your digital tracks through your mixer and see how that works

just a thoery

a

i send my tracks from live into the dj mixer and eq that way.. I like it much much better personally...this is when a 8 out soundcard is better for mixing!!

MrYellow · Post by **MrYellow** » Fri Jan 06, 2006 8:17 am

Why do my apples not taste like oranges?

-Ben

markone · Post by **markone** » Fri Jan 06, 2006 11:59 am

The biggest difference I have noticed from playing both wavs and vinyl through the same sound source, is that vinyl sounds warmer with more bass, while the wavs do not pronounce the bottom end as much and sound sharper and more metallic.

Is this a problem with my setup do you think, or just the general sound differences between vinyl and digital?