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How To for Serato and Ableton Live by PVD
Posted: Fri Feb 10, 2006 10:36 am
by JohnDP
Well, since a couple of months Paul Van Dyk uses SSL together with Ableton.
If I'd do the same I'd use SSL on one laptop and Ableton on the other, manually adjusting -painfully- the tempo of Ableton to the SSL tracks BUT in this interview Paul van Dyk states that he runs them together, i.e. the timecode goes into Ableton...
Read for yourself and please try and explain to me as I have no idea on how to do that or how that would work.
Trance.nu: When you are DJ-ing, you’re using Ableton Live a lot. What do you like so much about it?
Paul van Dyk: I’m not just use Ableton Live, I use a combination between Scratch Live and Ableton. I have 2 computers with me and I’m basicly using Scratch Live with time coded CD’s. That signal actually goes into the interface of Ableton Live. Within Ableton Live I have the possibility then to do the craziest things, because it’s a combination of a DJ program with a sequencer program. That obviously enables you to sort of re-arrange the whole track. It’s much more actually like playing live then rather DJ-ing in a normal way of how some people understand it. It’s crazy all the possibilities you have and the options of being creative they are just endless! Electronic music has always been about breaking the boundaries on the creative level as much as on the technological side. And by using those elements of course and these programs and computers and stuff, you can actually push the boundaries again! It makes something even more special. Because of the set up, I can never ever play a track the same way, because it’s always somehow different, it’s always a different thing. That makes it even more unique on one hand, but it also makes it more special to the actual event itself. For example, I can take elements of the track away and just play the strings, the drums or whatever.
Trance.nu: So you have special CD’s for that, since you can remove some parts?
Paul van Dyk: No, it’s a DJ program and it works a bit the same as Final Scratch. With the older systems you had a beeping noise, a time code, on the vinyl. That time code was actually translated through an interface. So the computer program knows exactly where the time code is. And then you hav a program, like a window, where you use something like a virtual card slot. So you can load a track into it. That is similar with Scratch Live, but instead of using analog vinyl, I use a CD with a time code. And that goes into the one computer, usually on my left side. And then this signal, instead of going into the mixer to be mixed, goes straight into the other computer through another interface that’s connected with the other computer on the right side, which drives the Ableton. It’s quite a tricky set up, but it’s great! It’s an amazing way of doing what I do now!
Posted: Fri Feb 10, 2006 10:51 am
by klarky
i do this but with ms pinky and the vst pluggo plug in - no need for 2 computers trance monkey!!! lol
all he is doing is feeding the ssl laptops output into another laptop with ableton, so he can add fx/sample/do whatever, as mantioned im just starting to do this too - works very well with auto warp when you sample small sections of a tune, but i done see the need for 2 computers, i d rather have my set up and a huge external hd
pvd is doing the same as you, i read it as the cd time code goes to ssl - not ableton
Posted: Fri Feb 10, 2006 10:56 am
by JohnDP
well I think the major problem here is to extrapolate what PVD actually wants to say. Its like saying "with SSL i have a signal that goes to the laptop and back". Well, its true and not incorrect but nobody can understand really what is ment by that.
What intrigues me is that he says that he uses more than just the filters and beat repeat (i.e. the effects)
That signal actually goes into the interface of Ableton Live. Within Ableton Live I have the possibility then to do the craziest things, because it’s a combination of a DJ program with a sequencer program. That obviously enables you to sort of re-arrange the whole track
It wouldn't be possible to have Ableton autowarp the timecode signal no? I would love to try this.
Posted: Fri Feb 10, 2006 12:20 pm
by JohnDP
ok, I am slowing clearling up here. PVD has the Serato "song", i.e. the processed timecode that goes into the Lin In of the right laptop, the one with Ableton, but then he would need at least a soundcard with two line ins (deck A and Deck B), now...what does he do after he sets up two line in channels in Ableton Live?
Posted: Fri Feb 10, 2006 2:03 pm
by Dr. Zoiberg
John, I doubt he's using SSL to control Ableton.
I think he just routes the 2 outputs from SSL to Ableton.
Then it's the usual job of keeping them beatmatched.
By the way I'm working with a friend on a Max/msp patch that should let us have pitch bending in Ableton... stay tuned
Posted: Fri Feb 10, 2006 4:35 pm
by JohnDP
Dr. Zoiberg wrote:By the way I'm working with a friend on a Max/msp patch that should let us have pitch bending in Ableton... stay tuned
ARE YOU BEING SERIOUS!!!!! Sorry for yelling but if you can do that I'll more than glady pay for it! Keep me and all of us posted please.
p.s. just one remark on what PVD said. Assuming that he is not a complete idiot hardware and software wise, why would he go so far and route all the SSL channels into Live? Why couldn't he just route them to the mixer say on 1 and 2 and use ableton on 3 and 4.
This is not negligeable because unlike people like Hawtin and Liebing that have tons of added hardware controllers with them, from what I understand and see, PVD uses only his two laptops and a mac and further, he connects everything before he starts playing so it cannot be so complex.
Posted: Fri Feb 10, 2006 4:49 pm
by Dr. Zoiberg
Yes I'm serious, and the idea is quite simple: merge two midi cc into one.
Will post on the board if we end with something working
About PVD:
Routing both SSL tracks to Live opens many possibilities for sampling and effects.
IMHO he simply uses two laptops, one with SSL, the other with Live, with the latter working as a fully customizeable mixer (but with some latency).
Not really ground-breaking.
Posted: Sat Feb 11, 2006 1:13 am
by DJSK
The only reason Paul Van Dyk is doing it this way is because like a lot of DJ's he just won't let go of beatmatching. What's that freaking point? Especially for someone like him. More than half the music he plays has been produced (atleast in part) by him. He probably knows the tracks bpms by heart. Think about it for a second. If you have two tracks that you produced and they were both rendered at the same bpm then in order for you to beatmatch between them, all you would do is look at the CDJ's digital pitch setting and match it to the currently playing track. I will say it again. What's the freaking point??? There is none. Let it go Paul, let it go. Unless you are turntablist (Paul definately isn't) then leave the Serato at home. Beatmatching doesn't make you a DJ.
Posted: Sat Feb 11, 2006 1:52 am
by radeon
DJSK wrote:The only reason Paul Van Dyk is doing it this way is because like a lot of DJ's he just won't let go of beatmatching. What's that freaking point? .
it is still a skill so the dj who cant beatmatch so use only computer standing nexto the djs with computer and vinyl or cd looking dumb. Its making no difference who play the great music really if both are the same on the music the promoter book the dj who use all his skills because he look more passion about his work. If I dj I never only use lapto p I would use laptop to compliments my other things. What you say is like to tell guitar player what is his point ito use feet pedals to change sound of guitar.
Posted: Sat Feb 11, 2006 2:14 am
by DJSK
I am sorry but I don't really get what you are trying to say. The point I am trying to make is that as DJ you need to "Work Smarter, Not Harder." The end result will always be better.
Posted: Sat Feb 11, 2006 3:47 am
by Jim S.
What a sign o' the times: for YEARS, saying "SSL" meant Solid State Logic and it meant you were talking about the go-to standard console in commercial recording/mixing studios.
Posted: Sat Feb 11, 2006 6:53 am
by dirtystudios
Jim S. wrote:What a sign o' the times: for YEARS, saying "SSL" meant Solid State Logic and it meant you were talking about the go-to standard console in commercial recording/mixing studios.
I was thinking "Wow, Paul van Dyke performs with an SSL console? That guy doesn't fuck around."
k
Posted: Sat Feb 11, 2006 12:09 pm
by JohnDP
To those who are interested in the topic, have a look at this link from the Serato forum where there has been a great deal of detail regarding this topic.
http://scratchlive.net/forum/discussion ... =10259#new
Posted: Sat Feb 11, 2006 12:25 pm
by leonard
Secure Socket Layer?
Why??
Posted: Sat Feb 11, 2006 5:23 pm
by radeon
DJSK wrote:I am sorry but I don't really get what you are trying to say. The point I am trying to make is that as DJ you need to "Work Smarter, Not Harder." The end result will always be better.
You say what is point of betmatch I say it is a skill so I see much point in to still use vinyls or timecode vinyl or CDs. Why should every person stop to beatmacthing I see great dj use vinyls it is be high exciting experinces to wacth the hands fast on vinyls I see sometimes laptop dj the sounds they make is mess sometiems