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 Post subject: performing with live- what do you actually do?
PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2006 2:26 am 

Joined: Sat Oct 15, 2005 7:58 pm
Posts: 199
Location: Over there by the beefburgers
hey I was wondering what people actually do when using live to perform?
i know people have different applications for it. As it is a programm designed for live use, are many people using it to improvise? If so, what is improvised? song structure? effects processing? or enture tracks?
I record my guitar into live, loop it, and process effects. There is a kinda half / half improv / structure thing going on. I have some songs that are already done, and the play as I twiddle some effects, or possibly cue up the next part.
are people using live to perform solo? or alongside other laptops / instruments?
does anyone use the arrangement view to perform live?

I', just very curious you see.
I often think, with the totally improvised stuff, that there's so much to do it can be overwhelming, and often find myself wishing my laptop could react directly to my thoughts. (say, when's a usb / midi brain coming onto the market?)


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2006 2:13 am 

Joined: Sat Oct 15, 2005 7:58 pm
Posts: 199
Location: Over there by the beefburgers
bump...
anyone? or has this one already been done to death? forgive me if I'm digging up an ableton corpse.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2006 3:36 am 

Joined: Wed Mar 31, 2004 3:12 pm
Posts: 8799
Location: www.fridge.net.au
many folks would laugh at the simple manner in which i currently use live at performances..

i have 3 channels set up..

channel 1 & 2:

1 x eq 4 set up as 3 band eq
1 x eq 4 set up as 3 band kill switches
1 x send to ping pong delay
1 x beatrepeat
1 x redux
1 x autofilter LP
1 x autofilter HP

channel 3:
1 x auto filter HP
1 x send to ping pong delay

Global:
loop in/out
x fader
tempo

channel 1 & 2 i have full length tracks, channel 3 i have some percussive grooves ive samples from tracks in channels 1&2.

i'm able to do some pretty cool interesting, creative mashups and tweaks of full length tracks in a dj sense when i use live like this. .. and i luv it.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2006 3:45 am 

Joined: Wed Mar 23, 2005 1:33 am
Posts: 13
I am curious to know too.

The way I see it is that you can do as little or as much as you want.

At what point does the level of human interaction constitute human performance and expression?

When are you truly producing something that could not be pre-recorded or fully automated?

If I manually run a filter sweep over a 16 bar loop am I a musician?

Am I still a musician if I trigger an LFO to do the whole job?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2006 6:34 am 

Joined: Tue Nov 22, 2005 6:29 pm
Posts: 1120
Location: Toronto Can.
sweetjesus wrote:
Global:
loop in/out


what exactly do you mean by this?

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2006 10:34 am 

Joined: Sat Oct 15, 2005 7:58 pm
Posts: 199
Location: Over there by the beefburgers
jazz_e_bob wrote:
If I manually run a filter sweep over a 16 bar loop am I a musician?

Am I still a musician if I trigger an LFO to do the whole job?

I know the feeling, I've seen people 'play gigs' barely touching anything on screen, it gets frustrating when I try and make something from scratch live and slip up a little.
a big problem I'm having with total improvisation is, as I say, there's no method of controlling as much as I want to immediately.
another massive problem for me is plug-ins / processor. The sounds I'd like to achive would require using tons of high end, heavy CPU plug-ins in live, which my machine, although pretty adequate, would not be able to handle.
Right now I'm thinking of changing things in my live set a little, spend some time generating some clips, using my fave plugins and triggering them live. Doing lots of triggering is pretty fail safe i reckon, and allows for creativity live. Perhaps a little dull to watch, so I may do a little guitar looping to make it more of a live act.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2006 10:55 am 

Joined: Wed Apr 21, 2004 9:47 am
Posts: 17422
Location: Queensland, AU
yeah I'm really keen to know too

It would be alot of work to chop all my tracks up into bits to make big sets to impro with

and there's also the fact I spent alot of time writing them as is so in a way I'm happy to just mix them in DJ style

But mostly it's just massively daunting trying to figure out how I want to set it up - there are so many options I dont know how I want it

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2006 11:41 am 

Joined: Tue Jun 15, 2004 6:40 pm
Posts: 14473
Location: Belgium
forge wrote:
yeah I'm really keen to know too

It would be alot of work to chop all my tracks up into bits to make big sets to impro with

and there's also the fact I spent alot of time writing them as is so in a way I'm happy to just mix them in DJ style

But mostly it's just massively daunting trying to figure out how I want to set it up - there are so many options I dont know how I want it


Yeah, i know how you feel. That is why i chose a different approach.
Instead of trying to fit my tracks in a set, I'm building a Live production template.
It's basically a Liveset where i can change any sound at any time.
Built upon the various ways you can combine dummy clips with routing.

It's still being built. But i already got the drumsection down.
I can change the kicks or other percussion coming from the impulse on the fly.
I can send them to any effect or output i want on the fly.
And everything is mixed, so that i get a constant volume from my beat section.

The synth section is another deal. My main problem there is to get the developers of my favorite soft synths to implement program changes.
But i already have a great synth to work with. ABL Pro is just made for Live usage.
Now only operator and automat need to join the program change party....
Then we got ourselves a kickass Liveset.
I can work around it with resampling though.
But it's just not the same.

The main joy of this modular set is the fact that i can have total control. Or let it run on autopilot.
There's even a couple of fail saves for when is should have to keep my eye on a drunk thats to close to my gear or other unforseen situations.

The main point is. I'm kinda tired of composing elements i have in my head, which then get fitted in song that has allot of common elements of a Live set.
Why not try to fit them together in one big set?

It is still going to take allot of work to finish this set. But i got the main idea down in my head. And i got an arsenal of dummy clips and other various elements at my disposal, to modify anything at any time.
All i need now is macbook pro to give me some more juice :D

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2006 11:55 am 

Joined: Wed Apr 21, 2004 9:47 am
Posts: 17422
Location: Queensland, AU
Hey Bjorn, it sounds like you have an awesome one, while I dont expect you to post it for all and sundry, A little more insight into the details of what you've done and how would be wickedly super!

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2006 12:09 pm 

Joined: Mon Jun 28, 2004 8:52 pm
Posts: 2433
Location: NOW
i really really like track import



being able to acess any set you've worked on and importing individual tracks!
combined with mackie control
(hardware eq helps here)
but i wish the routings were imported as well

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2006 12:10 pm 

Joined: Tue Jun 15, 2004 6:40 pm
Posts: 14473
Location: Belgium
forge wrote:
Hey Bjorn, it sounds like you have an awesome one, while I dont expect you to post it for all and sundry, A little more insight into the details of what you've done and how would be wickedly super!


No problem. but forgive me for keeping it a bit dense.
I expect you to know all this stuff :p

- The kicks = 1 impulse with 8 kicks and a w1 limiter

- Percussion = 2 x 4 impulse's which can be selected on the fly. I might go 3 x 4. CPU usage for this is pretty low.

- Dummy clips = the percussion gets routed through dummy clips which contain various automations for the effects on the track

I'm building a huge pallete of different beats and other elements, which i can all change at any time.

Currently i'm at about 300 scenes with different beats. But thats pretty much the beginning.
What else am i suposed to do with all these buttons, knobs, faders, pads, keys that are surrounding me? ;)

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2006 12:13 pm 

Joined: Tue Jun 15, 2004 6:40 pm
Posts: 14473
Location: Belgium
This might explain allot ;)

http://www.ableton.com/forum/viewtopic. ... highlight=

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2006 12:13 pm 

Joined: Thu Sep 30, 2004 5:13 am
Posts: 400
Ok, i'm gone try to explain my way to perform

I have one big set of about 300 scene/variation, the different thune scene grouped by colors. The set have 15 channels of audio and 4 fx pre sends and 2 midi out.

Each audio track is mapped so i can stop it /start it
8 track are assigned to A and the 8 others to the B (mangled by a fader)
four pots are assigned to the 4 fx sends master fader
the master have a an assigned 3 bands eq on after a compressor
1 midi out is for my korg er 1 that i trigger live
second midi out is preprogrammed midi pattern going to an old akai used
to sample live sounds coming from an acetate full of reaktor custom noise and sounds.
Up / down / start / stop assigned to keys
voilà :wink:

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2006 1:20 pm 

Joined: Wed Apr 21, 2004 9:47 am
Posts: 17422
Location: Queensland, AU
mike holiday wrote:
i really really like track import



being able to acess any set you've worked on and importing individual tracks!
combined with mackie control
(hardware eq helps here)
but i wish the routings were imported as well


yeah, I've been going through a few resampling/rendering tracks so they do what they do without any plug-ins at all so I can load the bits as loops into one set and have them all on just a few tracks with other tracks

I'm really not sure how much I'm really bothered about doing that though

it seems like in the production stage I did so much mangling and warping and effecting that it's like where do you stop?

I guess it just takes a long time to put together a set you'll be happy with

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2006 1:21 pm 

Joined: Wed Aug 31, 2005 9:12 am
Posts: 78
I'm just starting to look at possible live Live stuff, I mostly just use it for sketching down song ideas and djing a mix of electronic stuff and rock and metal (djing badly at that, I'm still just a novice at that side).

I know what I'm aiming to get to eventually though: I'd love to be doing a mixture of DJ set and live improvisation, flowing back and forth between premade tracks, pre-done Live stuff, and playing some real guitar or bass at various points during it. I can see that making for a better show (and more fun for me!) than just standing firing off clips.

So far I'm not very good at it, but maybe in a couple of months I'll be polished enough to go and gig. Which, since I can't find a band, is a good thing :)


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