Ableton Forum

hey guys,

I'm looking to get a little info from you electronic music producing types.

I've got an EP picked up by a net label in another country that is releasing the EP later on this year, they incurred no cost what so ever, and no contract has been signed (I know, I know, I'm learning from my mistakes)

I have interest from real record selling labels in my own country that would get it on the shelf, into Canadian mag's and on Canadian radio/TV (let's imagine this happens, for the sake of argument) and in select record stores.

What kind of arrangement do I need to come up with to take advantage of both? Could I have the local label distribute the EP as well as the net label, or am I mixing apples and oranges.

To get records out internationally, does the record label usually get into a distribution agreement? Is that kinda how it works? What type of deal are people getting where they can put records out on different labels? and why not stick with one???

I know there could be a million written pages on it, but I just looking for a little experienced opinions.

thanks

When a label puts out your recording what you are really doing is granting them a license for your work. There are various kinds of licenses -- mechanical (the actual recorded performance), publishing (the composition, incl. lyrics and music), synchronization (when your recording is used in a movie or TV, etc.)....

Typically a deal with a label stipulates that the label is granted an exclusive license, both for the mechanical and publishing rights, for a given territory. Our last record was released on our "own" label in Canada and on Tomlab elsewhere in the world. Our deal with Tomlab gives them an exclusive 5-year license for everywhere that isn't Canada, with an option to renew at the end provided both parties agree. This is a pretty standard agreement.

Tomlab has the right to sublicense the record with our approval (and in fact we sublicensed to another label in Japan), with the monies treated as revenue which is shared between Tomlab and ourselves. In short, a pretty standard arrangement.

Your deal with the net label implicitly results in a mechanical license for your work (you gave permission to "put it out"), but since there is no contract I don't think there's any exclusivity implied in that arrangement. This means that you can sign with another label, no problem, however you may not be able to offer an exclusive license to the second label for any territory because the net label has a license worldwide. You need to bring this situation to the attention of any new label you'll be dealing with.

PLEASE for your own good get educated about this stuff before you put yourself into a situation where you've given rights away that you weren't aware of --- i.e. "don't get screwed." There is a lot of jargon but if you are diligent you can pick up the basics pretty quickly, the info is all on the internet. NEVER accept an indie deal (or any deal, period) that is worse for you than a 50/50 split after expenses.

unusable wrote:hey guys,

I'm looking to get a little info from you electronic music producing types.

I've got an EP picked up by a net label in another country that is releasing the EP later on this year, they incurred no cost what so ever, and no contract has been signed (I know, I know, I'm learning from my mistakes)

I have interest from real record selling labels in my own country that would get it on the shelf, into Canadian mag's and on Canadian radio/TV (let's imagine this happens, for the sake of argument) and in select record stores.

What kind of arrangement do I need to come up with to take advantage of both? Could I have the local label distribute the EP as well as the net label, or am I mixing apples and oranges.

To get records out internationally, does the record label usually get into a distribution agreement? Is that kinda how it works? What type of deal are people getting where they can put records out on different labels? and why not stick with one???

I know there could be a million written pages on it, but I just looking for a little experienced opinions.

thanks

I think you meant to underline that !

after expenses

It's not nice watching a rec co spend cash on some crap promo thing, then to see that it stopped you from recouping when you finally get to audit them a year or more later.

nope, I'm not bitter.

We're very, very lucky, we have a good label with nice and ethical people running it. Before the record came out we very carefully went though every line item on the budget, it was overwhelming at the time!! Before you sign a deal make sure you see the budget and agree to it to avoid what happened to Angstrom.

how_gauche wrote:
Typically a deal with a label stipulates that the label is granted an exclusive license, both for the mechanical and publishing rights, for a given territory. Our last record was released on our "own" label in Canada and on Tomlab elsewhere in the world. Our deal with Tomlab gives them an exclusive 5-year license for everywhere that isn't Canada, with an option to renew at the end provided both parties agree. This is a pretty standard agreement.

Tomlab has the right to sublicense the record with our approval (and in fact we sublicensed to another label in Japan), with the monies treated as revenue which is shared between Tomlab and ourselves. In short, a pretty standard arrangement.

So for instance a subliscensed label in Japan will sell your record, on the back of that record being sold in Japan, does it reference your "own lable" Tomlab, or the Japanese Label?

Specifically, I'd like to be able to release in Canada under a different label which has contacts and ties locally. I'd just feel a little stupid saying to the net label "hey I want to subliscense my own musc to another label", although I'm willing to admit it may have been a mistake. I feel like I'm cheating on someone if I do that but on the other hand I do realize in retrospect that sometimes I'll make a wrong decision and should be concerned about myself primarily.

The whole net lable thing has been a little and has been a little "see how it goes" and it's a casual thing, where "you put together your music and we'll work on promoting you" with no real concrete financials. Seriously, I'm not worried about this ep selling tons (but maybe I should be) and having to get into these financial debates, as it'd probably be more than they want to deal with and don't want to be seen as a pain in the ass, but....

I plan to take what I've learned towards future releases,

unusable wrote:So for instance a subliscensed label in Japan will sell your record, on the back of that record being sold in Japan, does it reference your "own lable" Tomlab, or the Japanese Label?

To be honest? I don't know. I haven't seen the packaging. I would assume it says "Tomlab" on it somewhere.

unusable wrote:Specifically, I'd like to be able to release in Canada under a different label which has contacts and ties locally. I'd just feel a little stupid saying to the net label "hey I want to subliscense my own musc to another label", although I'm willing to admit it may have been a mistake. I feel like I'm cheating on someone if I do that but on the other hand I do realize in retrospect that sometimes I'll make a wrong decision and should be concerned about myself primarily.

You don't need to "sub"license. The thing in Japan for us is a sublicense because we gave Tomlab an exclusive license to our recording in all territories worldwide except Canada. So, they then have the right to negotiate sublicensing deals with other labels. Our contract has a sublicensing clause which states that they can only do this with our consent.

In your situation, from a legal perspective I don't think you've given away any exclusive rights to your recording to anyone, so you should be able to do whatever you wish. The only issue is whether negotiating a deal with another label is going to ruin any personal relationships that you might have with your first label.

Something you need to be aware of is that in many (maybe most) jurisdictions you actually can't license a recording in perpetuity, contracts without licensing term limits can be declared void. So if it's important to you, you and your first label probably need to sit down and discuss the terms of your arrangement in a more formal manner i.e. write up a contract. Something that may be amenable to all parties is to restrict the license of the first label to be "worldwide - digital only".

unusable wrote:The whole net lable thing has been a little and has been a little "see how it goes" and it's a casual thing, where "you put together your music and we'll work on promoting you" with no real concrete financials. Seriously, I'm not worried about this ep selling tons (but maybe I should be) and having to get into these financial debates, as it'd probably be more than they want to deal with and don't want to be seen as a pain in the ass, but....

Maybe you shouldn't be so worried about it. I'm sure you've got lots more music in you, if your stuff is good then.....just make more! Then the whole issue goes away.

how_gauche, advise greatly appreciated

depends on alot of things - what you're doing, expecting from it/can fairly expect from it

I had a couple of releases with a cool "underground house" label that had a good rep and alot of DJs listened to their stuff

When I first got my tracks "signed" to them I was going on alot about "when do I see the contract" blah blah and it never happened so I stopped asking - they'd already given me a reasonable advance for it (more than another bigger label was offering) so I just left it.

Anyway, they did what they were meant to, got them to alot of good DJs and got them charted and played and they did pretty well in underground terms

so there was no "protection" whatsoever and I didnt get screwed - the advance was the only money I saw but I didnt really expect more

just thought I'd throw in that different perspective

unusable wrote: I've got an EP picked up by a net label in another country that is releasing the EP later on this year, they incurred no cost what so ever, and no contract has been signed (I know, I know, I'm learning from my mistakes)

fuck it and release remixes of the tracks on another label, with no contract then you didn't give them exclusive rights to your recordings



then you have more muzic out there!