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Middle c
Posted: Sun May 28, 2006 7:13 pm
by djk
Stupid question here...is Middle C in Ableton c3 or c4. I'm assuming c3 given that it shows a c0 in the piano roll. The reason I'm asking is that I want to use a Yamaha digital piano as an 88-key weighted controller. It has no transpose function and transmits Middle C on c3 rather than the more standard c4.
Thanks!
Posted: Sun May 28, 2006 8:20 pm
by elektrovert
C3 is always middle C.
innit?
Posted: Sun May 28, 2006 8:35 pm
by DeadlyKungFu
C4?
Middle C
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In Western music, the expression "middle C" refers to the note "C" or "Do" located between the staves of the grand staff, quoted as C4 in note-octave notation (also known as scientific pitch notation). It also tends to be to the middle of a keyboard, and it is near the top of the male vocal range and the bottom of the female vocal range.
Although C4 is commonly known by the expression "middle C", the expression is keyboard-specific and players of some instruments may refer to the note by another expression. For example, that note (C4) would be "low C" to the player of a Western concert flute (as it is in the lowest register of that instrument — see Vocal and instrumental pitch ranges), while C5 would be middle C. Nevertheless, the expression "middle C" is generally clear across instruments and clefs.
When calculated in equal temperament with a reference of A above middle C as 440 Hz, the frequency of the middle C note is approximately 261.6 hertz. See pitch (music) for a discussion of historical variations in frequency.
For the frequency of each note on a standard piano, see Piano key frequencies.
Posted: Sun May 28, 2006 8:45 pm
by elektrovert
MIDI Octave Designation Systems
The MIDI (Musical Instrument Device Interface) standards unfortunately do not designate octaves. The standard merely designates that Middle C is note number 60. Thus, MIDI users have had to create their own designation systems using the MIDI numbering system. Understandably, the most logical octave designations were the existing designations superimposed over the MIDI numbering system. There are at least two accepted octave designation systems for the MIDI numbers. Part of the problem stems from the fact that the notes of the keyboard (or any other insrtument) are no longer a limitation in the range of pitches available.
One version of the MIDI system uses C3 to designate Middle C (MIDI note 60, 261.626 Hz). That means that the octave designation for MIDI note "0" would be "-2" or notated as C-2.
Another version of the MIDI system uses the lowest note available to the MIDI system (MIDI note 1, 8.176 Hz) to designate Octave "0" with the notation of C0. In this system, Middle C (MIDI note 60, 261.626 Hz) is octave 5 with the notation of C5.
http://www.music.vt.edu/musicdictionary ... sters.html
Posted: Sun May 28, 2006 11:12 pm
by djk
elektrovert wrote:MIDI Octave Designation Systems
The MIDI (Musical Instrument Device Interface) standards unfortunately do not designate octaves. The standard merely designates that Middle C is note number 60. Thus, MIDI users have had to create their own designation systems using the MIDI numbering system. Understandably, the most logical octave designations were the existing designations superimposed over the MIDI numbering system. There are at least two accepted octave designation systems for the MIDI numbers. Part of the problem stems from the fact that the notes of the keyboard (or any other insrtument) are no longer a limitation in the range of pitches available.
One version of the MIDI system uses C3 to designate Middle C (MIDI note 60, 261.626 Hz). That means that the octave designation for MIDI note "0" would be "-2" or notated as C-2.
Another version of the MIDI system uses the lowest note available to the MIDI system (MIDI note 1, 8.176 Hz) to designate Octave "0" with the notation of C0. In this system, Middle C (MIDI note 60, 261.626 Hz) is octave 5 with the notation of C5.
http://www.music.vt.edu/musicdictionary ... sters.html
I think this captures the problem. Indeed, I think some sequencers have give you the option to choose in the global preferences (I believe Logic, though I'm not sure). To the frustration of some, Yamaha has always used c3. I guess my question is which one does Live use? If the Yamaha digital piano is transmitting Middle C as c3 with no ability to transpose, then I would need to have Live recognize it as C3. Otherwise I guess I'll have to ship back the digital piano that I just ordered, which would be a bummer.
Posted: Sun May 28, 2006 11:46 pm
by MarkH
Ableton Live does not have middle C in the sense it doesn't label or identify any particular note as middle C. You simply have the Piano roll containing the full octave ranges starting with C0. Every midi controller I have ever used always puts C3 in the middle prior to pressing the Octave < DOWN or UP > buttons. I've never seen a midi controller put C4 as the default note for the center.
Posted: Mon May 29, 2006 12:48 am
by quandry
djk wrote:
I think this captures the problem. Indeed, I think some sequencers have give you the option to choose in the global preferences (I believe Logic, though I'm not sure). To the frustration of some, Yamaha has always used c3. I guess my question is which one does Live use? If the Yamaha digital piano is transmitting Middle C as c3 with no ability to transpose, then I would need to have Live recognize it as C3. Otherwise I guess I'll have to ship back the digital piano that I just ordered, which would be a bummer.
not sure if this is an acceptable solution to you, but you could use Live's midi pitch effect to transpose up/down and octave as needed...
Posted: Mon May 29, 2006 8:06 am
by elektrovert
MarkH wrote:Ableton Live does not have middle C in the sense it doesn't label or identify any particular note as middle C. You simply have the Piano roll containing the full octave ranges starting with C0. Every midi controller I have ever used always puts C3 in the middle prior to pressing the Octave < DOWN or UP > buttons. I've never seen a midi controller put C4 as the default note for the center.
^^^^ same as that.