Ableton Forum

This one probably most use to the guitarists out there, but all feedback is welcome!

I'm trying to learn about scales and modes, so I wrote a bit on my blog about 'em:

http://www.cubo.co.uk/2006/06/scales_and_modes.html

Anyone here who knows more than I do (most of you, I suspect) fancy reading over that and correcting me where I'm wrong, or people who know less than me (probably not many) let me know if bits need explaining? I think it could maybe do with some diagrams, but my brain's fried tonight...

I'm hopefully gonna continue with stuff to do with music theory generally, writing up bits as I try to learn them. I find explaining things helps me understand them (by showing what I don't understand myself, mostly!), so any constructive criticism is most welcome, i.e. don't just tell me it's rubbish!

looks pretty good so far. One of the cool things about modes is that they're actually very easy to figure out. Each mode corresponds to it's major scale degree. Huh?

C ionian
D dorian
E phyrigian
F lydian (can also have a b7)
G mixolydian (can also have a b2/b9 and b6/b13 )
A aeolian (natural minor)
B locrian

So you could just go through the scale but start and end on different notes.


edit: So I would continue with the explanation of each mode/scale individually. Maybe include sound clips of each of them. Piano key diagrams would be useful, too. Maybe in piano scroll format (especially helpful for Live, Reason, Logic etc users who don't have a keyboard controller handy).

I forgot to say - I've started setting up a Live-based practice tool, which has a track for each group of modes (major, minor, etc) set up to drive a sampler, so it can be driven at any speed. I might stick a bunch of tutorial stuff in there if I can work out how

The thing that threw me about people explaining it the way you did was that I couldn't tell from that how to get to C Lydian. Dunno why, some kind of mental block I guess, but this book does it all with piano key / fretboard diagrams, and I got it from that. Diagrams are definitely the biggest omission from this, I agree, and soundclips would be cool as well. I might pop wav and midi in next to each. That'll certainly make it more useful. Cheers

Learning the pattern of the Major Scale modes is not that hard, really. But that's only the beginning! It is far more important to understand their useage and individual colors; anything less is simply pattern memorization.

When I teach modes, I stress two things:

1) How does the mode (or better, "displacement") contrast to its parent scale? In other words, how is Dorian different than Natural Minor?

2) What effect does this have on the color/personality of the scale? For instance: Dorian has a raised sixth, which creates more forward-motion towards the tonic, therefore making it brighter and more "major-like".

So Dorian is a good choice when playing within a major tonality, but generally a poor choice when in a heavy minor tonality because it's too bright. Of course, there are exceptions to every rule and rules are meant to be broken....but still, this is the essence of understanding modes and their uses.

HTH!

Yeah for sure, learn the modes as simply the major scale played off each
degree, but also what intervals change when played off the same root. In
otherwords, which intervals need to be moved to turn a major scale into
one of the modes.

I Ionian Maj7
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 1

II Dorian min7
1 2 b3 4 5 6 b7 1

III Phyrigian min7
1 b2 b3 4 5 b6 b7 1

IV Lydian Maj7
1 2 3 #4 5 6 7 1

V Mixo-Lydian dom7
1 2 3 4 5 6 b7 1

VI Aeolian min7
1 2 b3 4 5 b6 b7 1

VII Locrian min7b5
1 b2 b3 4 b5 b6 b7 1


Now once you learn modal theory..... forget it.... then learn Lydian
Chromatic Theory http://www.lydianchromaticconcept.com/ ....

then forget that....

Why learn it if you have to just break away from it later?
Can't break the rules until you know them.

-Ben

very cool article. I'm very interested to see you write more on all this, its something ive never got my head around but the way you explain it is great.

This sight has helped me out, tremendously:

www.musictheory.net

I'm currently enrolled in classical theory, but, to be honest, we've really only been focusing on four part chorale style writing for the entire quarter. We did talk a bit about the phrygian mode with emphasis on the phrygian half cadence as it pertains to the four part writing. Definitely check out the web site though, its really good for ear training, among other things.

usefull
http://www.andymilne.dial.pipex.com/Harmonicmi.shtml

ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh, it's like i'm back in theory class again

would be good to give some examples of famous songs/tunes that use the different modes. eg the simpsons and lots of randy neuman stuff uses the lydian mode.

nolus wrote:would be good to give some examples of famous songs/tunes that use the different modes. eg the simpsons and lots of randy neuman stuff uses the lydian mode.

Miles Davis' "So What" is the classic D dorian jam. The original recording had the tape running too slow, so you have to find a pitch corrected version to play along, or somesuch nonesense.

I find when teaching people to hear modes, you should play them in parallel, i.e. play a C ionian next to a C dorian, C Phrygian, etc.

Also,great thread on presets for Live's Scale MIDI Effect (everything from hungarian to Super Locrian in there...)

Try setting up modal chord progressions with follow actions to hone your jazz chops...

Best,
Jesse

Even more good stuff here, thanks folks!

Jesse wrote:Also,great thread on presets for Live's Scale MIDI Effect (everything from hungarian to Super Locrian in there...)

I hope to soon add a bunch of african scales to the collection.
Somebody contacted me to teach him the dark ways of the scale plugin. And i suppose he's at it now.
I know for one that it is a painful job to make a whole batch of these

Didn't regret any second of it though. These scale presets are like 101 different flavors for any sequence.

Interval recognition is important.....

Singing Do Ra Me Fa So La Ti Do

With the hand signals, they give clues to how to pitch, like Ti ppl tend to
make flat, but the hand signal is pointing to the sky which reminds u to
pitch it up to a semi-tone under Do.

Then having someone (or software) play you intervals, up and down,
having you call them..... Using classic melody lines as reference helps
too.....

Major 6th.... "My Bonnie lies over the"... "My Bon".... "My Bon"..... "Major 6"

Then moving on to chord recognition so u can hear different chord times
even if inverted.

-Ben