Ableton Forum

Hey, I'm trying to recreate a certain delay trick I (and alot of other dj's) do with the Pioneer DJM 500 (or 600)

I know how to do it but it's hard to explain but I'll try.

I'm playing along and set the delay to 220 (something) depending

I hit the button and as soon as I hit the button I use the kill switch (the switch that goes from phono to line) to cut the track on and off creating this double beating effect - pretty neat

I can recreate it with just manual edits (cut copy paste) but I want to be able to do this with an effect rather than cutting my beats manually. effect

anyone know what I'm talking about here or how to do it in production?

Thanks in advance


DJA!

have you tried to put an autopan device, set as a gate (ie amount to 100%, phase at 0 and square shape) just behind your delay, with both devices at the same frequency?

have you tried using the cross fader (channel on A and fx on B)?

Most def in the right direction but when I'm cutting back and forth from Phono to Line the delay doesn't get muted - it's almost as if the 100% wet effect is heard then the dry then wet then dry - it's like a beat juggle

I'm going to try and post a example - maybe even a video if I can find one.

If you've ever seen Terry Mullan play he used to do this thing with the phono/line switch and it sounded like he was beat juggling / delaying the track? More people have probably seen him play more than me so it's a long shot

anywayz

but i will try and post a example - sit tight

Not sure if I understand what you are trying to achieve (I'm not a dj), but try this as a starting point:

Put your song/loop on track A, put a 100% wet delay on track B. Assign B's input to be A and set monitor on.

Then either map them to each side of Live's cross fader or assign track enable or volume to computer keyboard or midi buttons.

For some extra flavour put a low pass filter/EQ before or after the delay and assign the cutoff to a midi knob.

Is that similar?

Hey adonis,
Did you ever work out a way to do this live?

Patch thanks for bumping this thread, as it's before my time on this board.

Adonis, I *love* old Terry Mullan, and know *exactly* what you're talking about. I'll mess around w/ Live today and try to figure out how to recreate what you're after. One of my favorite effects on the 600... probably the reason I bought one actually! LOL

Should be easy, as all he was doing on the 600 was setting the delay to "2" and using the transform (phono/line) switch, as you mentioned above. That shouldn't be hard at all to recreate in Live... let me mess with it. Be back soon.

*edit: Ok, got it all worked out. See, the thing with Mullan was that he was doing two things in order to make this sound... he was pressing the yellow button on the 600 to activate the delay effect, and then he was flipping the transform switch to the half beat. Here's how to recreate it in Live... I'm doing this in Session view:

Place a simple delay on Return Track A. Turn the feedback all the way down and set the Dry/Wet to 50%. Set both Left and Right to the Sync setting and set the number on "2" on both left and right.

Open up the track with the drum loop you wish to affect. Map the Send knob on that track to a button on your midi controller. A key on your keyboard or you controller will also work, but if you want it to feel the same as the 600 you'll want this mapped to an easy to press button.

Now map the Volume Mute button on that track to a switch on your midi controller. Again, mapping to a key will also work but if you want it to sound and feel the same as Terry's trick you'll want this mapped to an easy to grab transform switch.

Viola! Whenever you want you can now (quickly) press the button to kick on the delay affect and then toggle the switch on the half-beat to recreate the same sort of delay that Mullan used in DJ sets.

so to get this straight the result of the effect on the 600 was that you go from whatever the original signal is to a delayed "beat-juggled" signal and then back?

I don't get it, wouldn't a Simple Delay set to 2, wet 100% do the same offset? So that you just nudge the whole thing by assigning a button to the dry/wet knob?

And what about the nudge function in Live? Doesn't that do about the same thing?

Andreas

^^^ No, because the 600 was only set to 50% intensity when Mullan was doing this effect.

So setting the delay to 100% as you mention above wouldn't work, because that would toggle you from just a plain kick (100% dry signal with no delay at all) to just another plain kick (100% wet signal which is only the delayed kick heard and no original signal heard), which sounds much different.

This particular effect is switching you from hearing the signal *with* a delay on it (volume green) to just the delayed signal heard through the sends (volume gray) and back again with the toggle.

In other words, the *first* beat you hear will be normal, because you've just switched the effect on. Then you're toggling the volume off on the half-beat, so all you hear now is a delayed kick drum through the send. Then you're toggling the volume back on, so the *second* beat you hear will be the kick and snare from the original signal with a delayed kick over it. Then you switch off again and just hear the delayed kick and snare alone through the send with no original signal, etc.

I'm probably explaining it weird but when he said Terry Mullan I just laughed, because that DJ doing that effect was one of the main reasons I bought that mixer many moons ago!

*edit: I don't know what the "nudge" feature is. I'm using Live 4, that's probably a feature of a version I don't use?

pre sends & the fader trick?

Frantic wrote:^^^ No, because the 600 was only set to 50% intensity when Mullan was doing this effect.

, so basically it's toggling between 0, 50% and 100% wet delay by manipulating a couple of buttons?

Machinate wrote:

Frantic wrote:^^^ No, because the 600 was only set to 50% intensity when Mullan was doing this effect.

, so basically it's toggling between 0, 50% and 100% wet delay by manipulating a couple of buttons?

Not really.... the delay stays set to 50%. It's the main audio that is cutting in and out. What this effect does is toggle between hearing audio with a 50% delay through an audio track and then hearing the same audio with a 50% delay through a return track.

Say your main signal is a kick drum, a high hat, and a snare in a classic house music pattern. Boom ta bam ta boom ta bam ta.

You're first turning on a delay effect at 50%. Then your first downbeat plays, a kick drum. It plays through the audio track and with a 50% delayed kick over it because of the return track. This makes it a bit more beefy and spacey (phased).

After this kick plays you are switching off the audio track's volume. The next thing you will hear is that same delayed spacey kick drum through the return track. While this is happening the main track is playing a hi-hat, but you don't hear this hat because the track's volume is off.

You are then switching the track's volume back on. The next thing you hear is a kick and snare combo, again with a 50% delayed kick and snare over it, making it spacey and phased.

After that plays you switch the audio track's volume off again. You then only hear the spacey kick and snare combo through the return track. Now instead of "Boom ta bam ta boom ta bam ta" you're going to hear a *phased* "boom boom bam bam boom boom bam bam" with no high hats.

There's probably easier ways to achieve it, but it was a natural and fun thing to do on the DJM-600 so I can see why someone would want to recreate that same feeling with Live.

Frantic - you done good, son. Thanks!!! I have a DJM600 and I'm gonna try with the mixer and the Ableton Live method you've described...

This is gonna be fun.

i managed to do it usin dummy clip..

Eddie Halliwell style

urmyuk1 wrote:i managed to do it usin dummy clip..

Eddie Halliwell style

Yeah?!? Explain. I'd love to hear how! What are you automating with the dummy clip?!?