Meters go red in Live 5 - what db ??

Beatworld · Post by **Beatworld** » Thu Jun 22, 2006 1:04 am

Can someone please explain to me what the significance of the master out meters going red is in Live 5?

I would like to know what level the meters turn from green to red in terms of db. I can't see anything in the manual on the topic.

It can't be 0db (can it) because you can go red and there is not necessarily digital clipping or distortion. I assume it must be something like -6db.

This has been one of the things I noticed most when moving from Live 4 to 5 and it has always bugged me.

Is there anyway to set your own preference as to when green becomes red?

cheers

quandry · Post by **quandry** » Thu Jun 22, 2006 1:35 am

I don't think you can change the meter's color behavior. I kindof like the response in 5 vs. previous versions, but ymmv. I think you are right--green goes to orange when the meter goes over 0 dB, and full on heinous digital clipping full-red is at +6 dB. I'd say adjust your master fader to make sure it never hits full red, averaging around 0 to +2 dB once your mix is set.

Beatworld · Post by **Beatworld** » Thu Jun 22, 2006 1:38 am

Orange ???

Can't say I have seen anything but green and red

I better have another look.

quandry · Post by **quandry** » Thu Jun 22, 2006 1:50 am

zoinks! oops, sorry I'm still using mostly ver 3 and 4, wow you are right, this change isn't so good--it's weird, the track meters still go to orange like older versions. I fully agree, the straight-to-red over 0 dB on the master isn't good.

DJ VAKIS · Post by **DJ VAKIS** » Thu Jun 22, 2006 3:33 am

Beatworld wrote:Can someone please explain to me what the significance of the master out meters going red is in Live 5?

I would like to know what level the meters turn from green to red in terms of db. I can't see anything in the manual on the topic.

It can't be 0db (can it) because you can go red and there is not necessarily digital clipping or distortion. I assume it must be something like -6db.

This has been one of the things I noticed most when moving from Live 4 to 5 and it has always bugged me.

Is there anyway to set your own preference as to when green becomes red?

cheers

Get the inspector plug-in from Elemental Audio Systems.It is FREE

njh · Post by **njh** » Thu Jun 22, 2006 4:01 am

looks like meters will be the newest fad around here....
i wonder what will be next .. maybe people will start pretending that the grid is off. or it could be the file menu isnt in perfect sync with the edit menu....

siddhu · Post by **siddhu** » Thu Jun 22, 2006 5:40 am

njh wrote:looks like meters will be the newest fad around here....
i wonder what will be next .. maybe people will start pretending that the grid is off. or it could be the file menu isnt in perfect sync with the edit menu....

It's not a fad....metering is not as accurate and easy to work with in Live as certain other DAWs.

As I say to other people on the forum when they dismiss this topic...read Bob Katz's book and you'll know why accurate metering is important.

FYI: I just did a detailed post in the thread about the K-System. That may help you understand why this is an important issue.

zfigz · Post by **zfigz** » Thu Jun 22, 2006 6:27 am

I don't wanna sound like I'm patronizing you, but siddhu, you look like a flamer on your website...sorry, I just had to say it.

are those really platform shoes you're wearing?

leisuremuffin · Post by **leisuremuffin** » Thu Jun 22, 2006 7:17 am

well, i like the shoes. And pants!

you're too skinny for me, though.

.lm.

Beatworld · Post by **Beatworld** » Thu Jun 22, 2006 7:20 am

siddhu wrote: As I say to other people on the forum when they dismiss this topic...read Bob Katz's book and you'll know why accurate metering is important.
.

Couldn't agree more. I have the very book "Mastering Audio: the art and the science". I highly recommend it to everyone.

That is partly why I find the transition from green to red in Live's master out meters so unhelpful. I don't know at what level/db red kicks in.

If nothing else I find the red off putting and preferred the pre-5 version where it just stayed green and let you go about your business

leisuremuffin · Post by **leisuremuffin** » Thu Jun 22, 2006 7:25 am

just to add something worthwhile:

red on abletons meter does indeed mean digital 0.

but i too have noticed that i don't always hear nasty digital distortion at red.

but that's what it it is. when i have inspector on my master, it's 0 and clip corresponds exactly to red on ableton's meter so long as my master fader is at 0, which is always, in my case.

.lm.

Beatworld · Post by **Beatworld** » Thu Jun 22, 2006 7:30 am

Interesting leisuremuffin, thanks for that.

rbmonosylabik · Post by **rbmonosylabik** » Thu Jun 22, 2006 7:56 am

ableton's red = 0

I thought this was common knowledge.

eyeknow · Post by **eyeknow** » Thu Jun 22, 2006 8:13 am

And again, to add, that means DIGITAL zero.

I think live is a terrific "total sum" daw......it's really very pleasant to the ears........easy to "dial" things in.

However, it's all SUMMING and without panning laws, and send routing that doesn't direct properly (I really don't think that's the right statement, hope at least some of you understand) at all "bunches" together which leads to more redlining.

Which of course in the digital world usually mean bad........

Something to try is to render and see where that sits. If it's just over-the-top........then it's a "duh". If it's ok, then that output is subjective......depending on taste!

For the master output, mayby try some mastering tools? I have frequently stuck vintage warmer on the output with all settings set to default just to keep the clipping down. There are so many options.....that is just one.

I have just recently started to pull the master down to about -3db to keep myself honest! It makes me pay attention to what the ohter tracks are doing..........

forge · Post by **forge** » Thu Jun 22, 2006 9:04 am

eyeknow wrote: However, it's all SUMMING and without panning laws.

how do you mean?a while ago there was a thread about what it was and I tested it out - it's a -3db dip in the centre

Meters go red in Live 5 - what db ??

Meters go red in Live 5 - what db ??

Re: Meters go red in Live 5 - what db ??