Workarounds for no Program Changes?

M. Bréqs · Post by **M. Bréqs** » Mon Jun 26, 2006 2:04 am

Hey all.

Just looking to see what people are doing to workaround the inability of Live to handle program changes.

I currently have a live set that has over 60 channels... All with different instruments. I only use about 2-4 at a time, but since I can't put in program changes for VST instruments, I've been reduced to scrolling back and forth like a madman trying to be able to change my instruments.

Luckily, if a VST instrument isn't in use, it doesn't generate CPU load, so it's a relatively effective, though ineffecient workaround. I just arm record any track I like and bang away.

The problem with Live Clips and Live Sets is that I cannot save midi or key mappings to them.

I started using clip envelopes to change ALL of my parameters when I'm synth programming, but it's getting fucking tedious.

So, any suggestions to reduce the number of channels I'm using?

quandry · Post by **quandry** » Mon Jun 26, 2006 3:44 am

I know that when I'm using a vsti in Live, pushing the "program up (or down)" buttons on my K-station change the presets on the vsti, fwiw. Also, when I type in a new program number, it often changes the vsti's patch, though I've yet to scientifically figure out what the logic is--ie what number entered on the k-station=what vsti patch. lets hope for this in 6 at the very least!

geo · Post by **geo** » Tue Jun 27, 2006 1:52 am

Why don't you use dummy clips? Just create another clip on the same channel where your VST is(double click on a slot) then select another program from the list. When you want a particular program loaded just fire the corresponding clip from the keyboard. You can name the clip with the name of the program for convinience.

M. Bréqs · Post by **M. Bréqs** » Tue Jun 27, 2006 3:04 am

geo wrote:Why don't you use dummy clips? Just create another clip on the same channel where your VST is(double click on a slot) then select another program from the list. When you want a particular program loaded just fire the corresponding clip from the keyboard. You can name the clip with the name of the program for convinience.

???

Can you explain that a little better?

I mean, I select a preset for a VSTi, and it's not a property of the clip... I can play a dozen different clips all day and the sound of the VSTi doesn't change...

Little help?

M. Bréqs · Post by **M. Bréqs** » Tue Jun 27, 2006 3:08 am

geo wrote: then select another program from the list.

What list? The list of presets that's in the instrument below? That's totally clip independant, and if it's not, then could you explain how I can put two clips in the same channel and have one trigger midi using preset A and another in the same channel trigger preset b?

Cache · Post by **Cache** » Tue Jun 27, 2006 7:30 am

i think he's talkign about the prog change ability of MIDI clips.

try this:

on your track playing the VSTi, create a blank MIDI clip.
then in the clip properties (bottom of screen, over on the left) change the prog -> sub bank -> bank to whatever patch in the vsti you want.

the clip has to be set to auto for the clip to play (of course...) so make sure to rec enable if you're playing live.

some vstis start at 0, some start at 1. so you need to double check the patch # you want based upon the vsti.

i've found though that changing Reaktor patches and other vstis cause a large CPU spike and basically aren't usable in a live situation. but it might work for you...
let me know how it works out - (or not?)
cache

Machinate · Post by **Machinate** » Tue Jun 27, 2006 7:42 am

Cache wrote: i've found though that changing Reaktor patches and other vstis cause a large CPU spike and basically aren't usable in a live situation. but it might work for you...
let me know how it works out - (or not?)
cache

works fine for me - I did a live setup a month back with about 8 midi clips to switch between Reaktor sounds for solos and stuff . Worked great.

Michael-SW · Post by **Michael-SW** » Tue Jun 27, 2006 10:18 am

Program changes from midi clips is a bit hit and miss. Sometimes it works, sometimes not. Probably depending on the VST, but maybe Live plays a part of it too. But it is definitely worth a try.

geo · Post by **geo** » Tue Jun 27, 2006 11:35 am

Cache wrote: the clip has to be set to auto for the clip to play (of course...) so make sure to rec enable if you're playing live.

Just a small question on that topic. If you have record enable activated (which is the only way to work with program changes and playing the instrument live), then when you play it starts midi recording. I could deactivate the loop function of the midi clip so I won't hear the loop again over my newly played part but what if I switch to another clip with another program change and then back to my original one? I will hear it again, anyways...You see what I mean?

hoffman2k · Post by **hoffman2k** » Tue Jun 27, 2006 1:17 pm

geo wrote:
Cache wrote: the clip has to be set to auto for the clip to play (of course...) so make sure to rec enable if you're playing live.
Just a small question on that topic. If you have record enable activated (which is the only way to work with program changes and playing the instrument live), then when you play it starts midi recording. I could deactivate the loop function of the midi clip so I won't hear the loop again over my newly played part but what if I switch to another clip with another program change and then back to my original one? I will hear it again, anyways...You see what I mean?

Why not just use 2 midi tracks? One for midi clips and one for live input. Turn monitor to "in" instead of arming the track.

geo · Post by **geo** » Tue Jun 27, 2006 3:38 pm

hoffman2k wrote:
geo wrote:
Cache wrote: the clip has to be set to auto for the clip to play (of course...) so make sure to rec enable if you're playing live.
Just a small question on that topic. If you have record enable activated (which is the only way to work with program changes and playing the instrument live), then when you play it starts midi recording. I could deactivate the loop function of the midi clip so I won't hear the loop again over my newly played part but what if I switch to another clip with another program change and then back to my original one? I will hear it again, anyways...You see what I mean?
Why not just use 2 midi tracks? One for midi clips and one for live input. Turn monitor to "in" instead of arming the track.

Hmm...it doesn't seem to work, I got 2 midi channels, the first with the VST on and record enabled, the second receiving midi from track 1(so MIDI From comes from Track 1) with 2 different empty midi clips on the session view having two different program changes and Monitor set to In. When I fire the clips it doesn't change the program.

hoffman2k · Post by **hoffman2k** » Tue Jun 27, 2006 4:08 pm

Track one doesn't need to be record armed. that track should be set to monitor in. Unless you want to record.

Track 2 needs to be set to auto. so that it actually sends out the program changes.
Program changes are like notes, they're ignored when you're working with dummy clips.

geo · Post by **geo** » Tue Jun 27, 2006 5:04 pm

hoffman2k wrote:Track one doesn't need to be record armed. that track should be set to monitor in. Unless you want to record.

Track 2 needs to be set to auto. so that it actually sends out the program changes.
Program changes are like notes, they're ignored when you're working with dummy clips.

Yeah, I see, I see now, thanks a lot, man, that was a great advice!

M. Bréqs · Post by **M. Bréqs** » Tue Jun 27, 2006 6:22 pm

Man, I'll have to try this as soon as I get home...

[crosses fingers]

hoffman2k · Post by **hoffman2k** » Tue Jun 27, 2006 7:10 pm

M. Bréqs wrote:Man, I'll have to try this as soon as I get home...

[crosses fingers]

You asked for a workaround

Dont forget to save your "program change clips" as Live clips.
Just kidding

Go to the Covert Operators download page and get your template