Ableton Forum

Ok i've been hella interested in this program for a while so i finally DL'd the demo and i can't for the life of me understand this program.I've been working in pro tools for a yr or so,and i'm not a complete idiot but damn i just can't grasp what is supposed to be happening in this demo.Is it just me or is the demo kinda sucky?
I've been digging around for a video clip of someone demonstrating the program step by step but i guess it doesn't exist.I want to use it during live performances with a dj friend of mine,but until i can get some concrete instructs i'll hold of on the purchs.
I've read the tutorial and it completely BLOWS.
Can someone please help me i can't wait to be able to do what everyone is talking about.

I just read my post and it's pretty vague.I'm not getting that little editing window in the bottom right side.What is that used for?...i see the warping and fx and i also understand that you can drag and drop audio in there but the sliders above it seem to make little if any sense at all to me???I do understand the track list it's somewhat similar to pro tools in it set up so i guess i have that in my favor.
Someone please help i posted this as a starting point.I would like to get some type of dvd instructional video if available?????but a response would rock the most.thanks in advance

Think of it this way upon initial loading you have several tracks named at the top. Each track is monophonic in voicing, meaning you can trigger one loop per track. If one is playing and you trigger another, then you'll override the current one playing. The editing window is complex, so you're gonna have to be a bit more specific on what you don't quite grasp. What exactly are you trying to accomplish?

I guess i would like to get a drum loop going on one track and then trigger some samples of vox on another track with fx on the vox like maybe a delay and then as the delay fades out, also fade a new drum loop to replace the old one.Also take some vox and throw fx on them and just tweak'em to beats being played by my dj.Is this even possible?....What's the general purpose of this program studio? or Live show's? or maybe it's both.I just need some general basic button by button sequence's,because it's seems that everything i try has a totally different outcome everytime?
The edit window,if that's what it's called on the bottom right side,i take only affects whats in it? But damn it goes bananas when i try to do anything.Is this a demo problem or is it supposed to do that?
The gray and black arrows are just crazy to me.I see that it changes the time at which play back of the selection starts but i just can't get it to do one thing consistently?And to add to the confusion i'm running it as a slave program in pro tools to play around with some audio i recorded and the audio playback is just plain stupid as in nonsense i can't replicate the same effect on the audio,in order to have a starting point and then get the effect to where it's usable.
Got any of that?..............as you can see i am thoroughly lost at what the hell is supposed to happen in this program.
I'd kill for a Rep. to come through town and do a demo,although he'd probably be so anoyed with all my questions he'd just blow me off as an idiot.

firstly i'm no expert..but have been jaming with the demo - and now have order it as i was so impressed.


its very simple - and that the beauty.

right forget pro tools - just use the demo on its own to get a grasp of what it is you are doing.


On your left is where you can get your audio clips (loops or whole tracks) that are AIFF or WAV whatever


the main area are your tracks/channels, each track plays one clip at a time....each track has two sends....you can have efffects in your send (next to the master out) - you can also apply effects dirrectly to the track.


right..at the bottom you have various windows for effects and various options for effecting the timing and warping


the warp marker are like in recycle a bit...you play them on the beats...this is so it plays in time with other loops playing in other tracks.


oh i gotta go...

Hey B-Man,
Go here

http://www.ableton.com/index.php?main=downloads

and download the movie under the "otheres" section. It is very helpful and should give you a better grasp of what live does.

Sorry Capt' but that link won't work.It downloads but after that i get transfered to graphics sites...........but thanks for showing me that there was a demo at one point.I think i'll try to talk someone into loading the demo on a computer down at Guitar center,then again i don't know how much that'll help there usually 6-8 mnths behind on technology there

Anyone know of another instructional video or video manual,I need to learn this program and i'm not making much headway through trial and error.
I can't seem to reproduce the same effect on audio the damn thing is just crazy.I'll get to a point when i think i'm catching on and then something goes wacky.

Hi B-man

the manual is really very good. But it has to be read carefully, you cant just skim it. Live does things fairly differently to other programs so you have to give it some space. You can DL the manual from the downloads section of the ableton site.

Also, I always find it really useful to read up on reviews of new programs to give me an idea of what other people do with it. Just do a google search for Ableton Live reviews and you will find some good stuff. I know for certain that you can find reviews of Live at Sound On Sound, Sonikmatter, OSX Audio just to name a few.

Also if you go over the www.creativesynth.com you can find some tutorials on live.

I recently bought the book Live 2 Power, and for someone like yourself i think you will find that book very informative. I feel like i know Live pretty well, but there was lots to think about in that book.

Good luck. It is really worth it to 'get' this program. Once you start thinking inside its paradigm all sorts of possibilities start to come out.

regards

Porpy

B MAN,

you cant think like a PT user with Live. I got to grips with the software in about 30 minutes. Set the browser to where your audi samples are, even set it to where one of your PT tracks are and simply whack them in to the clip section or the arrangement then play around with the audio.

hoenstly, dont give up you will like Live v much and used with PT's its a very powerful combination.

Do you have loops stored on your drive somewhere? if not get some and load them in to live its the easiest way to understand live which in all honesty is the easiest program to master out there.

B-man,

maybe you should check it out without rewiring, first. I will try to give a little step-by-step help for your task.
there are two ways to do that:
"old school": very similar to PT, you drag audio files on a time line (in the arrange view) and edit them with your mouse.
"the live way" drag audio in the jam window and play with it with your mouse, computer-keyboard or midi-keyboard

B-man wrote:I guess i would like to get a drum loop going on one track

Ok, did you figure out to find your audiofiles in the browser?
old school: drag the drumloop to the timeline in track one. make sure it is "warped" and "loops" settings in the clip view. You can loop it by just dragging the right end. (undo before trying the other thing)
live: go into arrange view and drag the audio file to track 1, row one. you just produced a clip. start by clicking on the start icon of the clip. make sure it is "warped" and "loops". check record first and everything will be recorded into the arrange view

B-man wrote: and then trigger some samples of vox on another track

drag a vocal sample from the browser to track 2
old school - on the timeline arrange view, where the vocals should start
live - into the first slot of track 2. start live by hitting the spacebar (you should hear the drumloop) and trigger the clip by clicking the start-icon whenever you like. in the clip view you can decide, wether it should trigger, toggle etc. wether it should quantise etc. try a little and use the info-view to figure out what it all means.

B-man wrote: with fx on the vox like maybe a delay and then as the delay fades out

that's a no brainer: open the effects folder (browser) and drag a delay to the vocal track (track 2)

B-man wrote: fade a new drum loop to replace the old one.

old school: switch to arrange and drag the new loop to the position where it should change in track 1 (undo before trying the live way)
live: drag the new loop into track one, hit record and play. when your new loop should be launched, just hit play on the clip (track1, scene 2)
when you're done switch to arrange (TAB) and look at the results. select a timeslot (by dragging the mouse over a track) and render your first live arrangement (command - R)

B-man wrote: tweak'em to beats being played by my dj.Is this even possible?....

You may want to try the tap tempo function to sync with the dj. don't do it with the mouse, it will not work.
1. Press command - k to assign it to a key
2. klick on the tap icon
3. press a key (you may try T for tempo)
4. Command K will get you back to play
5. tap the Tempo on the T-Key while your djs playing and start live

B-man wrote: What's the general purpose of this program studio? or Live show's? or maybe it's both.

I think it's both. you will find out, that assigning clips to a midi keyboard you can have a great instrument for gigs as well as a very musical way to "play an arrangement"
personally I use it as a loop-player and effects-rack for live gigs as well as a production tool for internet soeund-loops.
but the programm is very open and there are still many things to explore. remember that live allows you to record and playback audio in realtime, which will allow new concepts to be developped.

B-man wrote: The edit window,if that's what it's called on the bottom right side,i take only affects whats in it?

The window on the bottom right side shows different things you can select.
- if you select a track (click on the head row) it becomes a track view showing the effects of the track
- if you select a clip it shows the waveforms and properties of the clip (clip view). that's where you can define pitch and trigger options and where you can play around with the warp markers.
- and it shows the input and output as a bus view

this looks complicated, but if you try to understand the concept of the session view (as a pt-user the arrange view will not have much secrets for you) you will find it very easy to use. and eventually you will see how live leverages your creativity 'cause once figured out, it feels more like an instrument than pt, logic or cubase.

enjoy yourself and have fun

No offense, man - but, did you even look at the manual? Did you learn Pro Tools by trial and error? WOW. How long did it take you to learn PT that way?

RTFM, man.

~X0

Thanks for the reply nosuch! It was a big help seeing things in plain english written a person and not a "manual concept dept."
I'll try it without rewire through pro tools,maybe that'll help simpify a few steps and/or problems I think i've just got to get out of the PT's mindset and understand it as an instrument rather than additional seq.
I'll continue trying because i think once i get it together it'll really help me with some of projects i'm working on.
It's good to see a product's user forum be used to help someone with problems.And for the bored flamer if the question was below you,.you should have used your stab at an intelligent reply for something more useful ...........um.......... like making music

Exit Zero wrote:No offense, man - but, did you even look at the manual?

Hi Exit,

but the manual never gives a step by step initiation. I'm a user from 1.5 and everything is very clear to me (may be the same for you). I rarely looked into the manual though (only if I could not find out by trying) but utilized the info view. with version 2.0 the manual is crucial to understand the program. but, if you try to look at it as if you never seen live before: do you think you would understand it? I would not.
I can imagine that a newbie is puzzled by the concepts and is not able to figure out what is the benefit of the program. If you expect a workflow like in PT, Logic, Cubase it would be even more puzzling.

and not everybody likes to read manuals. I do not. So let's help those interested in live to take their first steps. It would be a shame if we would let them down.

regards

stephan

B-man -

I can really relate, although i'm coming from the i'm-not-really-a-trained-musician-and-i'm-just-becoming-familiar-with-digital-recording so this is ALL really abstract to me. i mean, i'm having trouble getting used to moving the mouse instead of physical sliders & knobs (i know, i know i can buy a midi controller). but, there are some good tips some people threw out here. i found the book just released by Dave Hill, Ableton 2 Live Power (Muska & Lipman) to be be waaay more helpful than the manual.

a couple of pointers that i'm finding help me.

1. keep tracks very simple and keep them in session view.
2. stick to two tracks for starters...you can always layer later on.
3. watch out for the warp tool. this is kind of like some jedi mind trick b/c it's very powerful, but also totally baffling if you just start mindlessly playing with it.
4. get to know the clip view really well and all the controls on that.

if there was a video, i'd buy it in a minute. the video that's on their site...someone gave you a link to a 17M file...it's ok, but it's a lot of marketing-speak, it's not really how-to. i'm still trying to find someone, and i'd pay good $, to actually walk me through stuff bit by bit.

but hey, i hear pro-tools is way less intuitive. you have my sympathies.......