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 Post subject: Single-knob DJM-800 style filters without MidiOx?
PostPosted: Sat Dec 02, 2006 6:07 pm 

Joined: Fri Feb 03, 2006 5:45 pm
Posts: 57
Joesapo wrote a great article on setting this up with Midi Ox on the wiki:
http://www.teragon.org/wiki/index.php?t ... le_filters

I'm trying to find a way of doing something similar using just Bome's and device racks in Live 6. (the less external programs running during a show, the better the stability, right?)

So; using one knob to affect both a highpass and a lowpass filter is simple. Having them both in a Rack that swaps from one to the other is a little trickier, but still fairly straightforward. Mapping the range 0-63 to sweep the whole range of the high pass and 64-127 to sweep the whole frequency spectrum on the low pass...that I can't do.

Any ideas? Is this impossible or have I missed an easy way of re-calibrating the MIdi-learn?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Dec 02, 2006 7:38 pm 

Joined: Sun Feb 20, 2005 9:15 pm
Posts: 233
something like this : http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... d&hl=en-CA ?
(he is using a single knob)


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 Post subject: Re: Single-knob DJM-800 style filters without MidiOx?
PostPosted: Sat Dec 02, 2006 9:40 pm 

Joined: Wed Mar 16, 2005 2:25 am
Posts: 422
Location: TN | USA
*sigh*

i can totally do it. ill be back soon. i love these kinds of things.

it'll be way easier with BOmes PRo. go get the demo of it. its got conditional rules...

but im thinking the resolution will be half, but thats what we want.

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my favorites at the moment: MASSIVE. FM8. LIVE 6. Bome's Pro. KORE.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Dec 03, 2006 2:42 pm 

Joined: Wed Apr 05, 2006 9:16 am
Posts: 48
It's do-able with Bome's Pro or Midi-Ox. Use the rules to map 0-60 and 68-127 of the incoming CC to 0-127 and 0-127 of two outgoing CC's.

Then in a rack have 2 or three chains with your filters. Map the original CC to the chain select, and have 0-60 or so select chain 1, 61-67 to chain 2, 68-127 to chain 3. Use chain 1 for low-cut, chain 2 for pass-thru and chain 3 for high-cut. This gives you a little bit of tolerance when you turn the knob back to the middle for no filtering.

Then use macros and/or midi learn to assign the original cc to chain select, and the translated CC's to the cut-offs of your high & low filters.

Now when the knob is in the middle, it should select chain 2 (pass-thru). When you turn it left it will select chain 1 (low cut) and the translated CC should sweep the cut off. Turn right and it will select chain 3 (high cut) and the second translated CC should sweep the cut-off. You'll need to play around with the ranges to get the best effect.

Gavin

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All the gear but no idea.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Dec 04, 2006 10:50 pm 

Joined: Fri Feb 03, 2006 5:45 pm
Posts: 57
thanks guys - I appreciate the help. Looks like Mr Bome's gonna be getting some of my hard-earned.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2006 5:02 pm 

Joined: Wed Dec 06, 2006 4:54 pm
Posts: 8
something like this?....

effect.adg


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2006 10:10 pm 

Joined: Fri Feb 03, 2006 5:45 pm
Posts: 57
that is brilliant!

good show, you're a genius


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2006 10:49 pm 

Joined: Wed Dec 06, 2006 4:54 pm
Posts: 8
great! glad it works

it was a bit tedious to create, though copy/paste and multi-selection just about halved the time.

the concept of this rack could be applied to many problems. i'm curious what other people might come up with. it also provides a solution to another shortcoming in ableton live.... that you cannot define a curve, that is... midi controls can only effect a particular parameter in a linear way, not for example in an logistic or exponential curve. i think that we should petition for both of these features in a future update or version of ableton live.
1. the ability to define the range of midi signals that are listened to for a particular control
2. the ability to define the curve which it effects the control

i'd also like to see what anyone else can come up with as far as emulating effects built in to other common hardware, and if anyone knows of a way to find specific parameters of those effects so that we could accurately emulate them. in this particular rack, i simply stepped up the frequency setting 2 notches for each step(one notch being the smallest draggable increment live allows) so that it increased linearly across the entire potential range. it would be interesting if in the manual, or some other source of information, it defined the specific parameters of the effects so that we could more accurately reproduce it..... or come up with an even more pleasing result. for instance, with the rack i made, the hi-pass side has little audible effect until the knob is almost at 3 o'clock. on the lo-pass side, the effect is audible almost immediately, which means the overall feel of the button is somewhat unbalanced. any thoughts on how to set the rate of change to get the most pleasing result?

sorry of this sounds more like a calculus problem than a musical discussion, but i'm sure there's at least one other geek here that will be as interested in this as i am. :-)


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Dec 08, 2006 12:05 am 

Joined: Mon Mar 13, 2006 10:52 pm
Posts: 80
nice one, wouldnt have thought of this myself 8)


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Dec 11, 2006 9:24 pm 

Joined: Wed Sep 03, 2003 11:18 pm
Posts: 565
Location: Belgradeyard
brilliant! :D

w :!:

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jan 01, 2007 8:56 pm 

Joined: Mon Mar 22, 2004 7:15 pm
Posts: 103
Location: Toronto, Canada
The same thing using much less CPU and hard work:

http://geradorzero.com/stuff/single_knob_filter.zip

Just unzip and drop it in your library.

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fzero.ca | No Step | Gerador Zero | Soundcloud


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jan 02, 2007 7:35 pm 

Joined: Fri Feb 03, 2006 5:45 pm
Posts: 57
fzero - I may have missed something with your rack - I tried something similar myself. It does work and probably doesn't make much difference in a performance situation, but I was looking for something which sweeps the whole spectrum as a low pass on one side of the knob (MIDI 0-63) and then sweeps the whole spectrum as a high pass on the other (MIDI 64-127).

That's what so clever about cjyetman's rack. Although you can't change the resonance like you've done with yours.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jan 02, 2007 7:49 pm 

Joined: Mon Mar 22, 2004 7:15 pm
Posts: 103
Location: Toronto, Canada
*sigh* wrote:
fzero - I may have missed something with your rack - I tried something similar myself. It does work and probably doesn't make much difference in a performance situation, but I was looking for something which sweeps the whole spectrum as a low pass on one side of the knob (MIDI 0-63) and then sweeps the whole spectrum as a high pass on the other (MIDI 64-127).

That's what so clever about cjyetman's rack. Although you can't change the resonance like you've done with yours.


Yeah, I noticed the low-pass sweep problem after I uploaded it. :( The problem with the other rack is that it clicks horribly towards the bass when you turn the knob too fast, probably because of the layer-switching.

Soooo... I'm trying to attack the problem in another way now. I created a VST effect in Synthedit that does exactly what we need. It still needs some cleaning up, but there's a beta version here:

http://geradorzero.com/stuff/single_knob_filter_vst.zip

Unfortunately it's for Windows only, but it's a start. Right now there's some small glitches, but I think I'll nail them soon.

---

UPDATE: I uploaded a new version which deserves the "stable" label. It sounds pretty nice and sweeps smoothly. There's still a minor glitch: if you turn the resonance up too much (just about over the middle) it's possible to notice when the filter changes from lo-pass to hi-pass. Mind you, with the reso knob at minimum there's already some resonance (added to mimic DJM800's sound) and the sweep is perfectly smooth. On the other hand, turn it all the way up to go almost into self-resonance (it squeals!!!). You can drop the effect on a channel while it's playing without any noticeable changes to the sound (a must for maniacal drag'n'droppers like me).

I think the only thing that's really missing is a nicer GUI with a big knob... and maybe a saturation control to add some dirt if needed. :twisted:

Oh, and did I mention it's open-source? The zip now includes the Synthedit source file for you to do whatever you please, as long as you release your version with the source too (yep, it's GPL). Enjoy!

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Last edited by fzero on Wed Jan 03, 2007 2:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jan 02, 2007 10:35 pm 

Joined: Fri Feb 03, 2006 5:45 pm
Posts: 57
I'm going to have a look at that tomorrow - good work

s


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2007 1:41 pm 

Joined: Tue Oct 11, 2005 6:08 am
Posts: 239
Location: sydney
Hi there

I agree this is a very cool application of the racks paradigm & I commend the work that's gone into it...

But, in practise there seems to be a noticeable (and not entirely pleasant) distortion when sweeping the frequencies quickly.

Does anyone have any ideas as to why this may be?

If we can fix it, this would be a truly useful live tool!


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