Ableton Forum

Does Jacko still own The Beatles catalog? Or did Sir Paul buy it back and is he cashing out to pay the divorce lawyers? Heard Hello/Goodbye in a Target commercial just now and it's the straw that's finally busted my balls. I'm sick of hearing Townsend's songs in car commercials all last year.-they're even selling Hummers! What kinda bullshit is that? The biggest polluters on the freaking planet! And then there's Winwood selling retirement plans for American Express! I'm not buying it! I'm boycotting! These frakking hippies betrayed their generation... they all sold out. Why didn't they die before they got old as advertised? At least the punks still have some credibility. I can't see them selling cars. Now I understand why the Sex Pistols boycotted the R & R Hall of Shame.

While I don't totally agree with your post, I understand the sentiment. That being said, I'm pretty sure Jacko still owns the Beatles catalog, which probably means there is more where that Target ad came from.

I'd say the artists had very little to do with it

you know John Fogerty doesnt own any of his music and is basically broke? What an amazing terrible thing that is - signed his rights away when he was young and stupid and now his songs are everywhere and Credence legendary and he gets nothing from them

I'm sure he does all right from touring, but the amount you hear credence around he should be more than all right

While I agree with your sentiment, a Sex Pistols song was indeed used in a car commercial a few years ago. Another reason why major labels suck.
and another reason why no matter how stupid and misogynistic Whitehouse are, I'll always appreciate them as the one group who could NEVER sell out, even if they wanted to.

Would you consider The Crystal Method sellouts?...just trying to get a bead on your definition of a "sellout" or is it just attributed to those who sounded the battlehorns against the corporate beasts in the past and are now bowing down before them?

jb61264 wrote:...just trying to get a bead on your definition of a "sellout" or is it just attributed to those who sounded the battlehorns against the corporate beasts in the past and are now bowing down before them?

You hit it right on the head my friend. It is a breach of contract with the generation that catapulted them into music history. We bought their records because of their music and their philosophy. By contrast one couldn't accuse the hip hop artists of being dishonest because at least they're very candid about the fact that the music is just a means to the bling.

I remember hearing iggy pop in a royal carribian commercial years ago. I thought it was kinda cool yet disturbing "lust for life... lust for life..." and little kids smiling in pools and stuff.... weird...

Maybe this isn't very sensitive but the way I look at it is if you're poor, and you sell out, well at least somebody crawled out of being poor.
Also if you sing about corporate corruption, yet are a tool of the machine, then you are a twit.

Dead Kennedys had ethics and values.

Rage against the Machine? Whatever.... maybe if they snaked out of their contract ala Sex Pistols level goofiness, and started recording for Alternative Tentacles, but they didn't. Che T-shirts and limos just don't mix IMO.

Machinesworking wrote:Maybe this isn't very sensitive but the way I look at it is if you're poor, and you sell out, well at least somebody crawled out of being poor.
Also if you sing about corporate corruption, yet are a tool of the machine, then you are a twit.

Dead Kennedys had ethics and values.

Rage against the Machine? Whatever.... maybe if they snaked out of their contract ala Sex Pistols level goofiness, and started recording for Alternative Tentacles, but they didn't. Che T-shirts and limos just don't mix IMO.

yeah I think even the term "selling out" is a luxury invented by the middle/upper class - people who really did grow up poor usually cant wait to get out

the people I've often found make the biggest noise about that kind of thing grew up quite priviledged - the ones who really were poor tend to accept money happily cause they know just what a bummer it can be to go without!

simpleton wrote:

jb61264 wrote:...just trying to get a bead on your definition of a "sellout" or is it just attributed to those who sounded the battlehorns against the corporate beasts in the past and are now bowing down before them?

You hit it right on the head my friend. It is a breach of contract with the generation that catapulted them into music history. We bought their records because of their music and their philosophy. By contrast one couldn't accuse the hip hop artists of being dishonest because at least they're very candid about the fact that the music is just a means to the bling.

You guys are missing the true point of what a sell out is. If, for example, Iggy Pop did this cool song years ago and he did it from the heart and it meant something to him and gained him a cult following, that's great. If years later an Ad Agency uses that song in a commercial, most of the time the original artist doesn't even have a clue about it until the extra royalty check comes in (and even then, he doesn't know where that royalty came from for the most part.) So that's not selling out at all.

Selling out is when the artist starts creating music for the soul purpose of making money, comprimising his original ideas and values just to satisfy what is demanded of him. For example if a cool underground artist signs a major deal with the condition that they now must use the lables producers and write the type of songs the label wants. THAT is a sell out. But NOT when an artists true art happens to all of a sudden get fame or get used in a commercial. I mean, look at that new cellphone commercial (forgot which brand) with the Clash's Rock The Casbah. How long ago was that song written? 30 years ago? And you think they are selling out because some 20 something ad agency guy said "Hey I found this cool song and think it would be great for the new T-Mobile commercial!" No.

forge wrote:

Machinesworking wrote:Maybe this isn't very sensitive but the way I look at it is if you're poor, and you sell out, well at least somebody crawled out of being poor.
Also if you sing about corporate corruption, yet are a tool of the machine, then you are a twit.

Dead Kennedys had ethics and values.

Rage against the Machine? Whatever.... maybe if they snaked out of their contract ala Sex Pistols level goofiness, and started recording for Alternative Tentacles, but they didn't. Che T-shirts and limos just don't mix IMO.

yeah I think even the term "selling out" is a luxury invented by the middle/upper class - people who really did grow up poor usually cant wait to get out

the people I've often found make the biggest noise about that kind of thing grew up quite priviledged - the ones who really were poor tend to accept money happily cause they know just what a bummer it can be to go without!

No offense meant, but that really wasn't what I meant at all. I didn't grow up even near rich, (welfare kid here) , and I still think a certain amount of ethics is important if you aren't making pop music. Public Enemy, or Dead Kennedys on a commercial for something is silly, but some band that plays party music, and sings about bitches and their degenerate trademarked Johnny Rebel drug habits etc. fuck it, sell cheeseburgers, whatever. Really how does a group like Foreigner sell out by doing a Burger King commercial? Can a group that NEVER had a message of any kind be called a sell out? Pink Floyd selling burgers? that would suck.

info_warfare wrote: look at that new cellphone commercial (forgot which brand) with the Clash's Rock The Casbah. How long ago was that song written? 30 years ago? And you think they are selling out because some 20 something ad agency guy said "Hey I found this cool song and think it would be great for the new T-Mobile commercial!" No.

No they sold out when they signed to a major, but WTF? they signed before it was obvious that the majors would do that sort of thing, A lot of older artists are not capable of stopping the record companies from using their songs in a commercial because they simply gave up that right when they signed with the major in the first place.
I think you can, and should if you want to be an artist rather than a money making machine, think about whether the meaning of your music is diluted by such contracts. I'm not interested in blaming older artists for transgressions of this nature, and to a certain degree I think hip hop culture has to change a bit in order for there to be room for this sort of ethical thinking, but I think punk, metal, and any serious artist of any kind should think about how far they are willing to go for the green.
Not trying to be rude, but it is still pretty easy to survive in western society on little money, and programs like Live make being an electronic musician a lot cheaper than ever before. There's no need for it, people make up needs from wants, and use that as an excuse for compromising corporate anal probings that offer a reward of a load of cash on the bedside table.

Machinesworking if sony came to you and said, im gonna sign your ep and give you a 3 album deal, you would tell them to fuck off???

this is a really interesting discussion

firstly because I've heard beatles interviews where they talk about how they were just keen to get their music out there - I think alot of the bands in the 60s especially would have been the same where they were just glad to have so many people hearing it

I agree I get annoyed when I hear a song on an ad, but I'm not sure if I was in the position of the artist it would bother me because I think you're always better to have the widest possible audience - that just means more chance of people out there "getting it" and getting the point you were making or what you were trying to do with your art

ads can sometimes bring it back into the popular consciousness

I mean really with 30 year old songs it hardly matters they have been played so many times (fuck 30 years ago now is 1977! )

if you make music for money you are selling out. period.

selling out isn't bad, it's making money doing what you love-music.

if you have millions of ears listening to what you have to say,
and you have creative control to some extent...then you DO have a responsibility to offer something that will aid to the progression of human kind as a collective entity.

If you make popular music to make money good for you.
If you have a chance to say something important and you dont' - fuck you.