Ableton Forum

I'm working now for a few month with new Live 6 and to sum up i'm a lil bit dissapointed at all about this tiny "update".

I can't understand e.g. why there are:

no Bezier-Cruves
no Crossfades

to put Live 6 to a level which all other DAWs support for decades now. I mean this is not a big deal Ableton!

Why there is no improvement for consisting plug-ins such as Impulse and Reverb?

I mean e.g. Logic has its Ultrabeat und SpaceDesigner - Impulse has at least no f**** ADSR and the reverb sounds crappy and isn't good to handle .. But for "Sampler" we have to pay and btw Sampler got no Stretch-Engine .. Whew!!

Just a few points out of many i can't understand - i'm talking bout Live 6 an expensive "major update" you know!!

what bugs me most about the (primitive) MIDI support, and especially the Editing capabilities in the Arrangement view, is that ABLETON is now advertising LIVE as a COMPLETE musical workstation - creation, performance, production.

but it's way, way short on implementation, as anyone who's used a good DAW knows-- SONAR, ProTools, LOGIC, etc

Ableton better step it up (and i encourage you to do it!!!) before they start losing customers .
... until they build a program that can back up their claims, i'd rather LIVE just focus on making the coolest performance tool they can (in which case:: Sampler should've been much, much cheaper OR the "piece de resistance" of the Live 6 upgrade).

heck! - Live doesn't even include a "live" pitchshifting plug-in for realtime performance use -- what the f**k is that about????

you can do workarounds for some flexibility, but if you start losing speed and functionality and response-time, (by having to route individual Impulse tracks to separate Audio Tracks, just to be able to Mute or Solo them individually, for example) then Ableton's falling off their own track (and i find that very sad and frustrating quite frankly)

Relevant to this: in the recent COMPUTER MUSIC special LIVE addition, Jan 2007, volume 20: Ableton CEO Gerhard Behles is asked about "seasoned Live users' five biggest gripes about the program."

Q: There's still no Scissors tool in the Arrangement view? Why is this?

A: Hmm.. Do you know about Live's Split command - CTRL/Cmnd+E? THIS KEEPS US FROM ADDING MORE BUTTONS TO THE INTERFACE AND ACHIEVES NEARLY THE SAME RESULT.

WHHWHWHATTT????? (my response)

Use yer brains' Ableton> First of all, I would not cry if 5 buttons were added if it helped me EDIT AUDIO faster!!! Second of all: Don't want to add a button?? Then simply let CONTROL-E turn the cursor into a Scissors tool, so that a CLIP can be SPLIT right where you point and click -- so you don't have to hunt/search and highlight (lasso) a block and THEN hit CTRL-E.. what does this do? it saves us all editing time by making a common action quicker and easier to perform.


and this is off-topic a bit, but still relevant:
Why on earth when you click on the SEND channels to edit/examine their FX, do you ever have to see the audio clip window view???? there will never be anything there. you can't put anything there. WE should all immediately see the FX window appear at the bottom, no fuss, no need to push any more buttons or keys or click on a different window view tab.

maybe some would say that's a minor gripe, but, hey, c'mon. It's clean and functional GUI design 101 -- Ableton did great on this in most respects, but this lack of the correct/relevant view appearing is a glaring omission, and it wastes the User's time.

i'll shut up now.

i love LIVE -- i'm just not as "in love" as i used to be

this version is a sweet demonic rip-off, and when dave hall is to read of "growth" it really makes me sick. seems they shifted concentration to somewhere else, now that their little ship ran stable in the producers cosmos.

hopefully they return to the feeling of delivering satisfying work.

Have I mentioned poor performance in my first post?

So hope for a free 6.5 (!) upgrade ..

I agree

am is are wrote:
heck! - Live doesn't even include a "live" pitchshifting plug-in for realtime performance use -- what the f**k is that about????

Every clip has a pitch setting. Not sure why you need a plugin - maybe I do not understand what you're after.

am is are wrote: (by having to route individual Impulse tracks to separate Audio Tracks, just to be able to Mute or Solo them individually, for example)

You can solo and mute any slot in the Impulse itself. I guess you mean in terms of automation?

am is are wrote:
Use yer brains' Ableton> First of all, I would not cry if 5 buttons were added if it helped me EDIT AUDIO faster!!! Second of all: Don't want to add a button?? Then simply let CONTROL-E turn the cursor into a Scissors tool, so that a CLIP can be SPLIT right where you point and click -- so you don't have to hunt/search and highlight (lasso) a block and THEN hit CTRL-E.. what does this do? it saves us all editing time by making a common action quicker and easier to perform.

I'm not necessarily opposed to a scissor tool, but for one thing you don't have to select an area, you can just split at the cursor. So granted, instead of one mouse click it is done with a mouse click followed by a split.

Keep in mind that Ableton needs to remain a live performance tool so concerns about not cluttering the interface are not entirely unfounded.

am is are wrote: and this is off-topic a bit, but still relevant:
Why on earth when you click on the SEND channels to edit/examine their FX, do you ever have to see the audio clip window view???? there will never be anything there. you can't put anything there. WE should all immediately see the FX window appear at the bottom, no fuss, no need to push any more buttons or keys or click on a different window view tab.

That seems like a good idea, to automatically switch to Track view when selecting the returns. Then switch back if necessary when a Track is selected, if the Clip View was active before viewing the return.

I came to Live6, because it has become a real DAW.
But i see a unsolvable target-conflict: either the goal is a performance tool, then the major concern is easy useage, or a complex composition/production tool, where complexity can be accepted, as long as it stay ergonomically efficient (best example: Logic - completely unlogical, but if you learn it, it is very, very efficient imo).
So if Ableton has enough sales, best could be maybe, to split the line into a performance and into a studio product.

It needs a third view for more advanced editing.

BigBuddha wrote:Why there is no improvement for consisting plug-ins such as Impulse and Reverb?

Have I mentioned poor performance in my first post?

oooh...kay.

Impulse: Has hot-swapping now.

Reverb: Sounds better (imo?) and the gui is smaller.

Performance: 80% increase on my dual core machine.

- along with a ton of other stuff that you choose to overlook, racks, freeze improvements, follow action update, revised midi implementation, better metering, new effects and so on.
Did you not try the demo before paying for this "expensive "major update"" ?!? You might blame Ableton for a - in your mind - less-than-optimal upgrade, but you sure can't claim they MADE you pay, can you?

Andreas.

..soooo.... I was considering buying this upgrade...but am having second thoughts now

krissings wrote:..soooo.... I was considering buying this upgrade...but am having second thoughts now

Try the demo....

Session View, Arrangement View and Audio/Midi Edit View.
They could bring all necessary tools into that view to REALLY become a complete DAW.
Because, let's face it, it is not yet.
If it was, there wouldn't be posts like: "do I need another DAW to use with Live?" and "is Live the only DAW you use?"

Landser wrote: So if Ableton has enough sales, best could be maybe, to split the line into a performance and into a studio product.

I completely agree with this statement. Make a Ableton DJ version and a Ableton Studio version. I am thinking now that Ableton has won the DAW award a few times, all they need are really a few more DAW oriented features to make it the best DAW on the market. The workflow in Ableton is really good but could be even better by adding a few things... I am all for Ableton Studio.

Ken

Machinate wrote:

krissings wrote:..soooo.... I was considering buying this upgrade...but am having second thoughts now

Try the demo....

yes I already did that..but the demo does not allow me to save when I want to work on all tracks

mauve wrote:If it was, there wouldn't be posts like: "do I need another DAW to use with Live?" and "is Live the only DAW you use?"

A question itself says nothing. It depends on the content and the reason of the question.