Ableton Forum

Plastikman's New album is pretty outrageous.

Deep, dubby, and minimal, he's created another masterpiece.

The packaging is excellent, and I picked it up cheap ($15 CND!) at HMV soooo get you booties to the record store!

Siddhu

I thought it was more of the same. It feels like Richie is in a rut, production wise. The vocals, I thought, were sort of cheesy.

He's still a phenominal DJ, though. But as far as techno production, he's not an innovator anymore.

its a pile of crap.

If that were a new artist they woul dbe a laughing stock. Theres nothing genius about Hawtin or any of his like. That type of music is simply written by people that cant play a note so they hid behind a veil of 'Im really deep'. Reviewers dont want to come soff as sounding like they dont know what experimental is supposed to be like so they lie and say 'Superb'

Its all crap and your being conned.

A truly experimental album for its time was The Beatles Sgt Peppers. Kind of makes Hawtins pathetic attempt sound like a bunch of monkeys left in a music shop to their own devices.

So I guess you are not a fan of German minimalist techno such as produced by Monolake one of the creators of Live.

Personally I think that St Peppers is a brilliant album....for the 60s andhighly avante garde at the time.

Saying that Sg Peppers is the still way ahead of it's time and on the cutting edge music in the 21st century is like saying in the 1960's that the Glen Miller band is state of the art.

The difference between the avante-garde now and people like you who dis anything that does not have a 3 chord guitar structure is open-mindedness.

It is sooooooo boring to listen to the whole old school crowd who constantly whine that loops and beats are not music and the people who make them
are hacks.

Rem,ember all the ink that was spent on "is the electric guitar a valid instrument" in the 60's.

Jimi Hendrix said fuck'em and made his axe sing.

I really don't understand what you are doing in the forum for Live which was created by very forward thinking musicians who are totally into deep minimal techno beats??!!

My advice to you is to go back to Ozarks and stick to the Banjo!!!!!!

Siddhu

Agreed. I'm feeling it as well, bought it on vinyl a couple of weeks ago.

Anonymous wrote:its a pile of crap.

If that were a new artist they woul dbe a laughing stock. Theres nothing genius about Hawtin or any of his like. That type of music is simply written by people that cant play a note so they hid behind a veil of 'Im really deep'. Reviewers dont want to come soff as sounding like they dont know what experimental is supposed to be like so they lie and say 'Superb'

Its all crap and your being conned.

A truly experimental album for its time was The Beatles Sgt Peppers. Kind of makes Hawtins pathetic attempt sound like a bunch of monkeys left in a music shop to their own devices.

i'm the original guest that responded to the thread...

just because one can't play a single note doesn't mean you're precluded from making good and viable music. brian eno isn't musically trained either, although he's gone on to produce some rather interesting music and groups. i bet you think eno is crap, too. which would seem to be the case by your standard of what constitutes proper experimental music.

and the beatles never hid behind a veil of "i'm so deep" either? puhlease, when they started dropping acid, i think their ideology got a lot more pretentious, too. and what about their love affair with that religous crackpot, the hare krishna? i like their music, but they're weren't the most intelligent human beings (just like most rock/pop stars).

anyhow, enough of the techno bashing. if you haven't heard the album, then don't respond how the beatles are much better, blah, blah, blah

i still think this isn't hawtin's strongest work, but stop comparing it to the beatles. geez...how cliched is that argument! the least you could have done is compared it to pet sounds instead...

siddhu wrote:So I guess you are not a fan of German minimalist techno such as produced by Monolake one of the creators of Live.

Personally I think that St Peppers is a brilliant album....for the 60s andhighly avante garde at the time.

Saying that Sg Peppers is the still way ahead of it's time and on the cutting edge music in the 21st century is like saying in the 1960's that the Glen Miller band is state of the art.

The difference between the avante-garde now and people like you who dis anything that does not have a 3 chord guitar structure is open-mindedness.

It is sooooooo boring to listen to the whole old school crowd who constantly whine that loops and beats are not music and the people who make them
are hacks.

Rem,ember all the ink that was spent on "is the electric guitar a valid instrument" in the 60's.

Jimi Hendrix said fuck'em and made his axe sing.

I really don't understand what you are doing in the forum for Live which was created by very forward thinking musicians who are totally into deep minimal techno beats??!!

My advice to you is to go back to Ozarks and stick to the Banjo!!!!!!

Siddhu

Yeh your right. I dont like Monolakes stuff. he may write great software but personally I think he shoul dstick to that.

You see your completely wrong about me dude. I am an electronic musician and have been for 15 years. I have heard all the so called electronic geniuses and very few of them have ever impressed me (even 10 or 15 years ago)

Have you listened to pop music lately? If not you should, because there is far more innovation there thesedays than there is in Electronic dance. Dont believe me........OK go and listen to Kylies latest thing......Great Electronica but is also a great song. Kind of makes anything by Monlokae and Hawtin sound like a bunch of amateurs IMO. have a listen to some US R+B (even the chart stuff) Great programming/feel some very modern ideas (Rythmically) far more innovative than todays so called ecletronic barrier pushers.

Just face it dude. An excuse for not being able to write good ideas/music simply menas they call themselves 'Experimental'

Nah.........im way to smart to be conned thesedays.

And there are a number of people/artists who dabble in Experimental now and in the past who genuinely do feel the music they are doing. It wasnt meant to be cool, it was from their heart. If You think Hawtins crap is from the heart then your a bit dumb.

wow...

k

Anonymous wrote:
And there are a number of people/artists who dabble in Experimental now and in the past who genuinely do feel the music they are doing. It wasnt meant to be cool, it was from their heart. If You think Hawtins crap is from the heart then your a bit dumb.

Well, you ended it with a smiley face, so I'll give you points for that - but, *IT* wasn't meant to be *anything* in a dogmatic, concrete or absolutist sense of the word. Music is a subjective approximation of personal interest. Some people take it from the heart, some from the head, and others from the ass. Most "dance" music, which gets maligned by many (myself included) isn't trying to appeal to one's heart or head, just their rump on a dance floor. Music like modern Autechre (conefield, draft 7, ep 7), which I'll assume you very much dislike, is panned very far towards the cerebral pole (and VERY very good from that standpoint - but crap from the other two). The heart is a special place that is so highly subjective I don't even want to touch it. What comes from my heart might sound cold and analytical to you, or like booty bump music to another.

The real question is, does the opinion of the creator even come into play in regards to this? Or should the sole arbiter be the listener (recreator)? If you're into post structuralist philosophy, a system that doesn't believe that anything can be communicated inherently within an object (that the sign, word, and signifier, meaning, are not connected on a 1:1 basis), the answer is no - and now you can understand the post modernist ethic a little more. We all paint our realities differently.

btw - I also agree that the new hawtin is crap, and I've been a longtime fan for many years (living close enough to attend many plus8 parties in windsor, and london, ontario in the mid 90s). I now listen to people like squarepusher and autechre (to name some of the more well known names) and other like cristian vogel (www.no-future.com) which you'll invariably consider crap.

...

Btw - that was me..

siddhu wrote:Saying that Sg Peppers is the still way ahead of it's time and on the cutting edge music in the 21st century is like saying in the 1960's that the Glen Miller band is state of the art.

how can you hate this album? have you ever been depressed or felt like your losing your mind? this album is the best representation i've ever heard in ANY genre of going off the deep end. put in on headphones and listen to it all the way through...it's the best thing he's done i think...thhe vocals are a bit annoying yes, but this is still one of the top albums of the year to me

[quote=And there are a number of people/artists who dabble in Experimental now and in the past who genuinely do feel the music they are doing. It wasnt meant to be cool, it was from their heart. If You think Hawtins crap is from the heart then your a bit dumb.

[/quote]

i don't believe this!!!! are you the godfather or something? how can you compare the beatles to Richie Hawthin, this is so stupid...
I think you should go check indepandant music stores sometimes, it would be good for you, regarding beat programing i have heard things a lot better than this r'n'b stuff you seem to jerk on, even though i like some of it, people producing breakcore (addict rec, venetian snares) produce beat 1000 times more interesting...
Except for a few R'N'B producer (that are actually most of the time always using the same receipt!!!!), i just hear crap comin' from those major company!!!
I don't beleive that somebody who had been in elctronic music "for 15 years" would have wrotten what you did. I think it's sad to be that narrow minded.

this guy is obviously a troll - i don't think you can say that kylie minogue is pushing the boundaries of electronic music and be serious...

move along, nothing to see here

i do think that most of the hotshot producers today, if anything else, get their ideas from electronica and infuse pop/commericial sensibility and writing with it Also, synth companies constantly bring out new products based on electronic musicians needs, and of course the producers would also likely to try them out in their productions. My point would be, keep doing what you are doing. There is a lot of room for experimentation and each effort wont mean success at first. Electronica still innovates and inspires from time to time.

Anonymous wrote:

siddhu wrote:So I guess you are not a fan of

Have you listened to pop music lately? If not you should, because there is far more innovation there thesedays than there is in Electronic dance. Dont believe me........OK go and listen to Kylies latest thing......Great Electronica but is also a great song. Kind of makes anything by Monlokae and Hawtin sound like a bunch of amateurs IMO. have a listen to some US R+B (even the chart stuff) Great programming/feel some very modern ideas (Rythmically) far more innovative than todays so called ecletronic barrier pushers.