Ableton Forum

Hello peeps,

My music-making buddy and I are "in talks" with a small net-label to see about getting a couple of our tracks signed to them for release on the djdownload website. The only thing is the contracts are a bit scary and intimidating and we've no idea if they're taking the p*ss or not.

They're offering a 50/50 split on any profits and once we sign they will "own" our tracks (but we will still retain writing credits). Is this a good deal or not?

Anybody got any advice?

Cheers

Neil @ Smashed Hat

hi feller

i dont know how the net label you are talking to is set up or how big they are so i cant really comment on that but i can say that ive been running my own small net label thing as a hobby for about 2 years now and i do it all on trust and it seems to work ok.

people send me demos and if i like them i reply and say id like to put their music up for sale on my site. i make it clear that its just a small thing that i do from home and they're probably not going to make much money, if any.
if they're into it then i get them to send me artwork and i make up cds for them and send about 10 out for review and radio play. then any that i sell after ive made back the costs of the ones i sent out i go 50/50 with them.

its quite good even though i dont make a profit as i dont factor in the cost of the website as they get publicity on my site and they usually advertise my site on theirs.

and sometimes i meet up with people, exchange views, sounds, collaborate etc which is nice

i only sell a few here and there, sometimes a bit more if something gets played on the radio. there's no contracts and people can quit any time they want, though no-one ever has

and it means i can put my own stuff out on it too.

i dont think i'd like to have my songs owned by someone else though, they're mine, i made them. i'd feel a bit weird about signing them away

Hi slatepipe,

Thanks for the advice. A friend on another forum offered this regarding ownership of the mechanical copyright:

Ask yourself why should they own them. Trad record labels work on the basis that say for example Coldplay record an album, EMI will pay for the band to stay at Parr St Studios in Liverpool and all the studio costs that are incurred in making that album. Consequently, when the album is produced EMI own the mechanical copyright of the music coz without them, it would never have happened. However, in your case, you've paid for all your gear, so why should they own the recordings?

Now if they were a large company who could promote you, then I might be more enthusiastic however how are people expected to know about your music so they can get round to buying it. Chances are they'd just stick it up on djdownload and they'd expect YOU to say for example set up a myspace with a link to your 'page' on DJ download to generate the sales.


So by the looks of things, they're not doing very much are they. And they want to own your music.....forever?

Things are never, ever straightforward are they?

I agree with your friend. The going rate used to be that the label would retain the rights for 5 years & actually promote it & try to sell it for you. Things have changed. What effort is this net label putting forth except that he owns the vehicle?

Smashed Hat wrote:Hello peeps,

They're offering a 50/50 split on any profits and once we sign they will "own" our tracks (but we will still retain writing credits). Is this a good deal or not?

Anybody got any advice?

Cheers

Neil @ Smashed Hat

When you get to this stage with you music, I'd highly recommend you seek out an entertainment attorney.

If it were me, I'd license the tracks non-exclusively so you could generate multiple revenue streams from the same song(s).

Smashed Hat wrote:Hi slatepipe,

Thanks for the advice. A friend on another forum offered this regarding ownership of the mechanical copyright:

Ask yourself why should they own them. Trad record labels work on the basis that say for example Coldplay record an album, EMI will pay for the band to stay at Parr St Studios in Liverpool and all the studio costs that are incurred in making that album. Consequently, when the album is produced EMI own the mechanical copyright of the music coz without them, it would never have happened. However, in your case, you've paid for all your gear, so why should they own the recordings?

Now if they were a large company who could promote you, then I might be more enthusiastic however how are people expected to know about your music so they can get round to buying it. Chances are they'd just stick it up on djdownload and they'd expect YOU to say for example set up a myspace with a link to your 'page' on DJ download to generate the sales.


So by the looks of things, they're not doing very much are they. And they want to own your music.....forever?

Things are never, ever straightforward are they?

I agree with your friend too, what he wanted to say was 'Publishing Deal' ...thats what you want. Thats where you've done all the work, all you want them to do is sell it along with the rest of their stock. You maintain all your rights, ownership etc, all they get to do is sell it (exclusively..) and get a cut.....I dont know if 50/50 is the going rate tho...maybe when you're not known, and its only for a couple of tracks.....but certainly not if you're well known & successful...

they certainly shouldnt OWN the tracks as they said...probably bad deal?.....I'd be ok with the 50/50 cut, but change the contract so its clearly a publishing deal & you maintain track ownership & production credits ....all the label should get is their 50% cut after costs and perhaps exclusive rights to sell the tracks for X amount of time...


imo

on the other hand, it is only a couple of tracks....you should ask yourself if you dont mind selling them to the label for the benefits (publicity?).....tough decision...

Yeah, don't do it. And in today's internet music world, you should be able to set up a deal for yourself much better than this.

I have my own label and with the artists that I sign I only take 10% to cover the administrative costs and royalty collection costs and my distributor takes 15% for a grand total of only 25% (what is this 50/50 crap!? don't fall for that unless they give you an advance!) and my artists ALWAYS retain the FULL rights to their songs and I get their songs up on iTunes Worldwide, Sony Connect, eMusic, Rhapsody, etc.

Most net labels I've seen that can get you up on major visable avenues (like iTunes) don't take more than 30% usually, but you are responsible for promoting your own music, etc. If they take more like 50/50, then they better be promoting you, giving you an advance, etc. just like a regular record label does.

i wouldnt give any rights away to somebody.
there is for me no reason for this.

i have released my cd through cdbaby, paid 55$ once and for all and it is for sale on over 40 intenet shops including itunes.

i have to do the promotion for myself.

It's sounds like a simple "distribution deal."
I'd just go for it. However if you are really concerned, get an entertainment lawyer to go over the contract with you, and make changes if possible.

But remember, there are probably lots and lots of other artists willing to sign that contract! Make a decision quickly.

be VERY careful

My first release came from an online label. they had the exact same deal on the contract. 50/50 profit splits, label has ownership of tunes. It was my first one so I was pretty excited and decided to go for it.

Shortly after the release, I lost all contact with the label and its runnrers. No AIM or MSN presence, I didnt have any phone numbers, nothing. Emailed them countless times, no reply.

Their site was still up and running and they were actually releasing new material from other people so that struck out the possibility that the label had gone under.

Their site is now offline. Seems their shady ways finally caught up with them.

I'm just glad I only gave them that one single tune and no more. And as far as i'm concerned, it is still MY tune, not theirs. They didnt keep their end of the contract, i see no need to keep mine.

Being remixed by some friends as we speak, and I will most probably sell both the orignal and the remix to some other label.

The moral of the story is: just be careful who you make deals with. Its one thing to be nice and help out an emerging label, but after experiences like this, i honestly prefer to shoot for more established labels who have a certain level of credibility that they'd like to keep. Shop around, don't settle for the first deal you receive.

Sorry for the rant

^^^^ sounds like very solid advice

Smashed Hat wrote:Hi slatepipe,

Thanks for the advice. A friend on another forum offered this regarding ownership of the mechanical copyright:

Bu that info was wrong as recording cost are a recoupable cost, so bands pay for recording out of royaltiies.

aqua_tek wrote:
Being remixed by some friends as we speak, and I will most probably sell both the orignal and the remix to some other label.

But now its not a a clear title which you need to guarentee to the new label, so you will be liable if it gets mixed up in a legal battle.

Thanks for the advice everybody, I think we'll have a friendly chat with the label before we commit to anything to see if there's an alternative deal they'd be willing to agree to.

I'm excited about the prospect of having tracks released but I think we need to tread cautiously.

Thanks again for all your help, you're all wonderful people.

aqua_tek wrote:be VERY careful

My first release came from an online label. they had the exact same deal on the contract. 50/50 profit splits, label has ownership of tunes. It was my first one so I was pretty excited and decided to go for it.

Shortly after the release, I lost all contact with the label and its runnrers. No AIM or MSN presence, I didnt have any phone numbers, nothing. Emailed them countless times, no reply.

Their site was still up and running and they were actually releasing new material from other people so that struck out the possibility that the label had gone under.

Their site is now offline. Seems their shady ways finally caught up with them.

I'm just glad I only gave them that one single tune and no more. And as far as i'm concerned, it is still MY tune, not theirs. They didnt keep their end of the contract, i see no need to keep mine.

Being remixed by some friends as we speak, and I will most probably sell both the orignal and the remix to some other label.

The moral of the story is: just be careful who you make deals with. Its one thing to be nice and help out an emerging label, but after experiences like this, i honestly prefer to shoot for more established labels who have a certain level of credibility that they'd like to keep. Shop around, don't settle for the first deal you receive.

Sorry for the rant

My situation is similar. Now supposidly I am based out of ESTONIA???what the fuck I am as far from that shit hole as you could imagine, living in the USA