Ableton Forum

I posted this in Tips & Tricks, but maybe it should just be in General.

Background:
I have been mixing techno (records) for a long time. I have been creating nice techno tracks with Live/Reason/NI for some time. I have some external gear - mc505, 303, sp808, asr88, bcr200, ect...

I would like to start playing my sets sets in a live performance would aprreciate some advice!

My Live setup usually consists of
- Channels 1-8 dedicated to 8 impulse drum kits
- Channels 9-16, various softsynths
- Channels 17-x, samples, misc.

The way I forsee myself playing live is having complete midi control of ableton in a fast and efficient way. Ex. Mute bass drum channel 1, switch to synth channel 15 and manipulate effects rack, switch to channel 6 and filter out cymbols, switch to channel 1 and unmute bass, etc..

I am looking for a controller that would allow me navigate and control scenerios like this rather quickly. I thought the bcr200/bcf200 would suffice, but after using them there are some limitations I can't live with.

After doing some research I think that a "control surface" is what would fill this void. Specifically something with auto faders and channel banks so I can switch to any channel within seconds and control it. I have looked at the Mackie Control and the MAudio Project Mix and they both seem suitable for my goals.

What do you guys think? Do I need a "control surface"? Are there other products than the ones I mentioned that would allow me to utilize alot channels aside from the remote sl (small faders)?

If you are performing dance type music (not laptop djing/mixing), do you use more than 8 channels? If so, what hardware do you use to control?

What are the limitations of a BCR or a BCF that you are having trouble with? The things you described can be accomplished pretty easily with one if you set it up right. It's no Mackie control, but you can't beat it for the price.

I use my BCR extensively. I've got scene up/down controls, a whole line of drum effect knobs, volume controls, transport, filter/res controls for my external synth, filters, reverbs, resos, main volume and tempo, one-off samples mapped to the buttons, and mutes mapped to other buttons. Hasn't failed me yet.

You could always check out the Novation Remote Zero SL. It looks pretty spiffy. I was thinking about upgrading actually.

Thanks for the reply, checked out your music and I really like it

the_planet wrote:What are the limitations of a BCR or a BCF that you are having trouble with?

I may not take full advantage of all the bcr has to offer. I have not tried Mackie emulation.

Main gripe is that all of my bcr presets are statically mapped, so in the preocess of creating longer sets adding and deleting channels becomes irritating at best because many things must be remapped to fit.

Another issue I have - I cannot use the encoder groups / buttons as global controls because the bcr only recieves data on the current preset.

Simple example:

Working with 2 presets. On preset 1, encoder 1 is set to send cc1 on channel 1.

On preset 2, encoder 1 is also set to send cc1 on channel1.

I would like these two encoders on different presets to stay in sync. I want them to move at the same time.

So if I the value of both encoders is 0. If I move encoder 1 on preset 1 from value 0 to 100, then switch to preset 2, the value of encoder 1 on preset 2 is at 0 still.

They both control the same cc on the same midi channel, so I want them to move simultaneously.

After thinking more about it, I could probably stick it out with the bcr. I guess I'm just curious what hardware people out there are using to perform live in a similar way as I would like to.

the_planet wrote:You could always check out the Novation Remote Zero SL. It looks pretty spiffy. I was thinking about upgrading actually.

Ya these look pretty sweet. I might pick one of these up as an fx box for the automapping but the faders are pretty crappy.

Re: encoders on the same effect but on different presets not being updated, change the MIDI PORT (options-preferences-midi) setting, open the help box and hover over REMOTE, SYNC and TRACK, I believe it's REMOTE OUT that you want.

Two more tips:
- only set as many in/outs settings as you need, too many can bog Live down.
- changes to the buttons' states take place with the graphics, leave that box open as you tweak and test, saves a lot of time.


I have an SL and a BCR and get way more mileage from the BCR. The coolest thing about the BCR is that you can change presets by holding down a preset button arrow key and turning any encoder, and there's gobs of knobs.

I use the SL when I'm making the foundation of a .als, when I want to play out the .als and have fun I go to the BCR.

I map the BCR by hand to fit the presets I put in it, or start the .als with something that fits what I need to start and fix it later. I also have .als files saved off as _8 track audio.als, _8 track midi.als etc so they show up at the top of the list, ready to go.

I keep Mackie and Automap on presets like 20 and 21 where I won't overwrite them, but with the SL I don't really use them. When I use them on the BCR, I look at the SL to see what they control, odd.

I changed the presets on my BCR so Preset x was CC0 - whatever on channel x, seemed an easy way to keep track.

The presets I first made were, one with...
- 4 send faders on the top, controls for the 4 sends' FX on the bottom
another with
- a 8 tracks * 2 band EQ w/volume on the bottom and global controls (bpm, quantise, all that) up top.

Then I combined the two by copying a preset and hand editing the rest. I kept the top for the send faders, bottom is 8 tracks of 2 band EQ and volume. The preset next to it has send FX controls on the bottom as I need with the top as the send level.

The buttons in the middle are track on/off and launch clip. The buttons on the lower right are scene up/down and start/stop.

The push encoders launch 'dummy clip' FX clips on Send D (check the tips and tricks sticky, really cool voodoo.)


My advice - Change preset 1 to CC #0 - whatever for all the encoders and buttons. Copy that to preset 2, 3, 4 and you only have to change the channel on the other presets, not the CC#s, doesn't take too long. Assign your instruments to presets 1-3, put global stuff on 4, play with it a month then start to combine them. The physical location of encoder #x on every preset is the same CC #x. Preset 1/Ch1 - impulse, Preset 2/Ch2 - various softsynths, 3 - samples, misc, 4 - global control.

As cheap as the BCR is, get TWO for what? 250? There's your 16 tracks, chain them.

IMO all the editing software sucks and doens't work for me, but hand editing is easy, just stay focused and sober and it goes quick.

/rant over... back to beats.