Ableton Forum

hi there

import 12 tracks of phase-locked drum recording. start trying to edit them in the arrange.

- you find that there is no such thing as "grouped tracks" in LIVE, a huge bummer

- you find that you cannot "hide" tracks - if they're in the set, they're showing

- you find that you cannot option-select multiple items to send them to a single destination or for any other purpose

- you find that trying to select individual tracks within the 12 to see/edit within the warp window results in inconsistent behavior at best - no combination of key presses will consistently yield different tracks viewing in that warp edit window - this HAS to be a bug

then you look for a nice tall building to jump off of.

anyone got any wisdom about any of this?

thanks in advance

best,
Rich Hilton
Nile Rodgers Productions

hiltonius wrote:hi there

Hi!

hiltonius wrote: import 12 tracks of phase-locked drum recording. start trying to edit them in the arrange.

OK!

hiltonius wrote: - you find that there is no such thing as "grouped tracks" in LIVE, a huge bummer

True. It's a bummer!

hiltonius wrote: - you find that you cannot "hide" tracks - if they're in the set, they're showing

True. Another bummer!

hiltonius wrote: - you find that you cannot option-select multiple items to send them to a single destination or for any other purpose

Hmm, not sure about that one. You can select multiples of some things. What exactly are you trying to do?

hiltonius wrote: - you find that trying to select individual tracks within the 12 to see/edit within the warp window results in inconsistent behavior at best - no combination of key presses will consistently yield different tracks viewing in that warp edit window - this HAS to be a bug

Hmm again - I've never had any strange behavior with selecting which clip is viewed in the clip view. You just click on the one you want to view. You can't view more than one at a time... (?)

hiltonius wrote: then you look for a nice tall building to jump off of.

Don't do it!!! We love you!!

hiltonius wrote: anyone got any wisdom about any of this?

Wisdom?

hiltonius wrote: thanks in advance

You're welcome in retrospect!

hiltonius wrote: best,
Rich Hilton
Nile Rodgers Productions

Wow, I love the song "At Last I Am Free"

Anyway, since your 12 tracks are all synced up, maybe try 'delete time', 'cut time' and 'insert silence' as commands, rather than editing a single clip. That way, it will cut all the clips, not just one.

There's also multi-track warping in Live 6 which might be of some use to you in this situation.

hey longjohns, thanks so much for your response! being new to this software, it helps me a lot to get the perspective of others. now, let me please elaborate a little bit.

hiltonius wrote: - you find that you cannot option-select multiple items to send them to a single destination or for any other purpose

longjohns wrote: Hmm, not sure about that one. You can select multiples of some things. What exactly are you trying to do?

i'd like to be able to route all 12 drum tracks, in this example, to a single output without having to do them individually. in pro tools, for example, you select the desired tracks, and shift-option select any one of them and they'll all go to wherever you send that one.

another use would be to be able to instantiate a plugin on multiple tracks simultaneously.

hiltonius wrote: - you find that trying to select individual tracks within the 12 to see/edit within the warp window results in inconsistent behavior at best - no combination of key presses will consistently yield different tracks viewing in that warp edit window - this HAS to be a bug

longjohns wrote: Hmm again - I've never had any strange behavior with selecting which clip is viewed in the clip view. You just click on the one you want to view. You can't view more than one at a time... (?)

not only did I find this maddening and inconsistent, but the fellow at the NY Ableton office did too! I know you can only view one at a time, but when it says "12 clips" over on the left bottom, and you want to see, say, the hi-hat in the warp window, there seems to be no reliable way to do this. I need to be able to switch between various selected tracks in the warp view in order to align the whole group to the proper hits at the proper time. currently i can switch between certain ones, but not other ones, and there appears to be no rhyme or reason to which ones are available and which ones aren't. I need them ALL to work properly in this way.

as i said, any attempt to do this produced unreliable and inconsistent results for me and for the guy at the office. if you've got some trick that makes this happen properly for ALL selected tracks (but not grouped - AARRRGGGHHH!), i'm very interested to learn what it is.

hiltonius wrote: then you look for a nice tall building to jump off of.

longjohns wrote: Don't do it!!! We love you!!

awwwwww, thanks!

glad you enjoy Chic.

best,
Rich

hiltonius wrote: i'd like to be able to route all 12 drum tracks, in this example, to a single output without having to do them individually. in pro tools, for example, you select the desired tracks, and shift-option select any one of them and they'll all go to wherever you send that one.

another use would be to be able to instantiate a plugin on multiple tracks simultaneously.

Unfortunately I'm not aware of any way to do either of those functions in Live. I would suggest starting a thread in the Feature Request forum, as they sound like perfectly reasonable and helpful ideas...

hiltonius wrote: not only did I find this maddening and inconsistent, but the fellow at the NY Ableton office did too! I know you can only view one at a time, but when it says "12 clips" over on the left bottom, and you want to see, say, the hi-hat in the warp window, there seems to be no reliable way to do this. I need to be able to switch between various selected tracks in the warp view in order to align the whole group to the proper hits at the proper time. currently i can switch between certain ones, but not other ones, and there appears to be no rhyme or reason to which ones are available and which ones aren't. I need them ALL to work properly in this way.

as i said, any attempt to do this produced unreliable and inconsistent results for me and for the guy at the office. if you've got some trick that makes this happen properly for ALL selected tracks (but not grouped - AARRRGGGHHH!), i'm very interested to learn what it is.

Sounds like you may have more experience than I do with warping multiple tracks But here's my thoughts for what it's worth:

If you need to view a certain track in the clip window during a multi-track warp, then I think the sure-fire way to achieve that is to make that track the last one you select. I realize that this would mean a LOT of selecting / deselecting if you're changing visible tracks all the time.

So here are two other ideas:

1. Before you start warping, bounce all 12 drum tracks to one "control track" and then use that one as your visual guide. So now you're warping 13 tracks, but this one will evenually be deleted. You don't have to be listening to the track, so it won't mess up your mix. This might help because you can see the waveform display of all the drum sounds.

2. Forget about the clip view for visuals. Instead focus on the Arragement view above. When you move warp markers, there is an actual shift which you can see on the grid above.

-Unfold all 12 tracks, by holding alt while you click any of their unfold buttons.
-Select all the tracks (now you've got the stripey display in the clip view, and it says "12 Clips" (or ehem, "13 clips"???)
-Lock and move warp markers on whatever clip is displayed below, but you can clearly see it's effect on all the tracks above, so you should be able to make your changes based on whichever clip is critical at that point on the grid.

I am curious how you are able to view different clips in the multi-warp without losing the selection, even if it's not predictable?

longjohns wrote:I am curious how you are able to view different clips in the multi-warp without losing the selection, even if it's not predictable?

first of all, thanks for the helpful suggestions and comformation of my fears regarding some features.

the way i found to occasionally get the proper behavior out of the clip window with multiple tracks selected is to individually de-select and then re-select the clip (the clip window will go to "11 clips" and then back to "12" in our conversational example). as i say, this happens very inconsistently for me and for the guy at the NY office I spoke to.

thanks again

Rich

quoting myself...... the nerve of da guy......

hiltonius wrote:hi there

- you find that trying to select individual tracks within the 12 to see/edit within the warp window results in inconsistent behavior at best - no combination of key presses will consistently yield different tracks viewing in that warp edit window - this HAS to be a bug

i've been advised that this does work consistently on the PC platform. i've been working on various macs so far - can anyone confirm that PC works for selecting single tracks from a multi-track group and having those single tracks appear in the warp window consistently, and you can switch freely between them?

thanks
Rich Hilton

hiltonius wrote:quoting myself...... the nerve of da guy......

hiltonius wrote:hi there

- you find that trying to select individual tracks within the 12 to see/edit within the warp window results in inconsistent behavior at best - no combination of key presses will consistently yield different tracks viewing in that warp edit window - this HAS to be a bug

i've been advised that this does work consistently on the PC platform. i've been working on various macs so far - can anyone confirm that PC works for selecting single tracks from a multi-track group and having those single tracks appear in the warp window consistently, and you can switch freely between them?

thanks
Rich Hilton

Hi,

Indeed, the only trick now (until we find a way to improve the system) is to hold the option (Mac) or CTRL (PC) key, to remove the clip you want to see in the clip details, and click it again, so it becomes 'the last clip added to the selection', and its waveform is displayed.

Is it what is no tworking consistently on your Mac? That would be a wrong behaviour.

Regards,
Amaury

Amaury wrote:

hiltonius wrote:quoting myself...... the nerve of da guy......

hiltonius wrote:hi there

- you find that trying to select individual tracks within the 12 to see/edit within the warp window results in inconsistent behavior at best - no combination of key presses will consistently yield different tracks viewing in that warp edit window - this HAS to be a bug

i've been advised that this does work consistently on the PC platform. i've been working on various macs so far - can anyone confirm that PC works for selecting single tracks from a multi-track group and having those single tracks appear in the warp window consistently, and you can switch freely between them?

thanks
Rich Hilton

Hi,

Indeed, the only trick now (until we find a way to improve the system) is to hold the option (Mac) or CTRL (PC) key, to remove the clip you want to see in the clip details, and click it again, so it becomes 'the last clip added to the selection', and its waveform is displayed.

Is it what is no tworking consistently on your Mac? That would be a wrong behaviour.

Regards,
Amaury

hi amaury, thanks for the response.

that is exactly the behavior that is unpredictable and buggy. I was able to confirm this with people in the Ableton NY office, who had the same result that I did.

he also suggested that the bug is limited to the mac version and that it works as you describe predictably on the PC version, which is why I asked someone using Live on a PC to please check and confirm.

even still there are are glaring omissions/decisions in this program that make editing multi-track audio far more difficult than it is on any other platform i've used since, well, the early-90s, to wit:

- need for the ability to group tracks where desired so that any edits applied to one applies to all, without having to CONSTANTLY re-select the tracks you want the edits applied to

- need to be able to show/hide tracks so that a live set can contain all the elements used to construct the song without having to delete tracks you might need later but don't want to see right now

- need to be able to select multiple tracks/objects with a modifier key to apply a single action to the selected tracks (like assigning them all down a single bus with one action, or applying a single plugin to all selected tracks, etc).

as long as I have to re-select all the tracks in my drum group EVERY TIME I want to do anything to them, as long as I have to LOOK at tracks I have no use for now, and possibly forever, and as long as I have to select multiple tracks to a single destination ONE AT A TIME - this thing is a boat anchor to my audio editing workflow.

I wish it wasn't so, and I'm all about looking for workarounds - but in my mind the linear audio implementation of this thing is half-baked at best.

as we all know, in the looping/warping world, it does things no other program can do, and for that reason I wish for you guys to get the rest of this audio editing stuff right so I can use it constructively on songs I've already begun on other platforms.

thanks for listening.

Richard Hilton