Ableton Forum

Hi.

This is a nicely intended email to kindly suggest that anyone who finds that they are constantly wishing for new features and that they spend too much money and are never completely satisfied with what they get to invest their time in Max/MSP.

It takes a lot of time, and it will get you doing more math than some of us are used to, but ultimately the forum is very helpful, and as you are learning some very interesting concepts you can rapidly start to grab control over ableton live (etc) in very, very powerful ways.

Yeah. For a second there I was like, Damn- I got to like keep this a secret and stuff, but I a can't just do that. You're all my boys. I know you guys know what this software is, and I know that it takes a relative investment of time, but I'm telling you that it will make trance!

There's not much that can compensate for the feeling you get after you realize that you can actually make the tool you need.

I still haven't moved on to MSP yet, let alone jitter.

I'm still having fun making things flash in max

Pluggo runtime is the bomb..
It allows you to run most max patches you need in Live.. in Live!

One thing kills me about this app though.. For about almost every idea you get after connecting about a hundred wires...
You'll find an object that makes some days of work obsolete and then the cycle begins again.

http://maxobjects.com/ <<<--- Torture/Utopia for geeks

Nice! Thanks for the link.

I know what you mean about finding out that there is a patch that already does what was just labored over. I try to remind myself that there are much faster, way more experienced people that have been messing around with this for years, and as a result most of the basic ideas I will be having for a while are most likely already around and free. In the interim it seems that I make something, and as I go about applying it to the next stage I immerse myself in threads and links that tell me how what I did to get there was already done, and simpler, more elegant ways. I attribute these lessons to a list of memory reinforcements.

I too am fairly stuck in MAX right now. I am relying on only the bare-basics of Jitter, though Jitter will be a major focus in the future. MSP will require some advanced concepts and math that I am postponing. Although concepts like phase-vocoding fascinate me I am have tools in that department that already that do a better job than I need at the moment. That is time that can be spent making music/art.

I have been looking into MAx/Msp.. does seem like there is alot to learn, (demo),
how is max compared to Kyma.. I know they are different by what little research i have done, just out of curiosity how (or if) are they comparable?.. one things certain.. the difference in price. just wondering.

Caymus Cab wrote:I have been looking into MAx/Msp.. does seem like there is alot to learn, (demo),
how is max compared to Kyma.. I know they are different by what little research i have done, just out of curiosity how (or if) are they comparable?.. one things certain.. the difference in price. just wondering.

Good question!

You can also check out PureData http://puredata.info/, which is sort of branch of Max/MSP that is being developed by the creator, Miller Puckette. It is free, open source, probably doesn't have the same user base or the same amount (level of quality) of documentation, but is still pretty usable as far as I can tell. There are some neat projects being developed with it. I think it would take just as much time to learn but the programs are pretty similar so you could probably transition to either one without too much hassle.

There is also Plogue's Bidule http://www.plogue.com/, which is almost like an even higher level modular system for connecting audio stuff. I don't think it does any video/graphics stuff and is probably a little less powerful, in some ways, as either Max/MSP and Pd. Also, it is totally proprietary but you can get the SDK if you prove yourself capable and probably make anything you want. There is an early buy option for $75 that gets you, when v1.0 comes out, a fully functional "lite" version or a reduced rate on the "real deal". The gui looks really nice on this and it already has modules for sample playback and stuff like that.

I think the power of Pd and Max/MSP to do video stuff is what would make it more worth while to learn these two, or at least, one of them. Bidule is probably pretty nice as well.

Hey!

I actually started doing the tutorials (from the trial) this weekend. I've been a bit annoyed (read envious) of what Machinate has come up with in conjunction with the Lemur. But also I used to do programming before I made music - like 20 years ago in the sweet childhood of home computers. And I like doing the math and the logic thinking that it requires.

At the moment I can't afford it, though. Maybe I'll check to see if I can get a teacher's license (even though I teach drama rather than music).

Anyway - cool that you're on board LOFA. One more resource to bug once I get started for real!

-M

I didn't have the stamina to continue reading the max documentation
lame.

Thanks for the encouragement to learn Max/MSP/Jitter. I'm dying to take the plunge, but its intimidating! These kind of threads remind me that it will be sooo worth it!

we've started learning it at college and im finding it pretty hard going.
i dont really know what i want to do with it yet....maybe somehow control this sodding joystick that ive got in conjunction with live, maybe make a few effects, maybe eventually get my head around the technicalities of midi.

i keep trying to learn more of this stuff but i often end up getting frustrated and give up, throw a few loops into the session view and zone out for a while.

i have to do an assignment in max for next month so i guess now i really have to get it sorted out.

im looking forward to the time when max is second nature but its going to be hard work getting there

LOFA wrote:...but I'm telling you that it will make trance!

Damn, I missed that part. Count me out!

-M

statepipe wrote:i have to do an assignment in max for next month so i guess now i really have to get it sorted out.

Would you mind sharing the assignment? It'd be cool to see what people do on an academic level with this program. And I could use the practice...

-M

Lo-Fi Massahkah wrote:

statepipe wrote:i have to do an assignment in max for next month so i guess now i really have to get it sorted out.

Would you mind sharing the assignment? It'd be cool to see what people do on an academic level with this program. And I could use the practice...

-M

does anyone know of a college in california that does max? locally in sacramento I don't think there are any but I'm curious about berkley.

http://www.cycling74.com/twiki/bin/view/Workshops

i am enjoying doing max for several years now, and the only REAL problem i stumbled upon was having too many choices...
yep, may sound silly but i started to use max "normally" after i realized that the things that i would like to do with it does not have to be new Logic or Protools or greatest compressors or theultimatemodularselfsequencingmicrosoundmachine but some simple but useful stuff..

osx users (ppc only) can check the vst i have done in max/msp called "GlitchBaker" (of course they have to download the latest pluggo runtime too)...

GlitchBaker
http://www.jabucnjak.hr/component/optio ... /catid,10/

Pluggo runtime
http://www.cycling74.com/downloads/pluggo


enjoy!

i have both kyma & max/msp/jitter
the main reason for the price difference is the hardware - kyma has a large
black box into which the software loads, once u have a patch loaded u can
actually shut down yr computer & the patch continues running. Which is why
people use kyma for sound art installations etc... it has AD & DA, MIDI etc
Kyma also sounds great - really high quality DA & digital processing/rendering...
it does very high rez spectral analysis/resynthesis - some of which metasynth
can do but Kyma is way better quality... i would say the learning curve for kyma
is similar to max/msp - they both take a LOT of time & energy to get your head
around....
i would consider myself a total beginner with both, mainly due to not having
enough free time & what free time i do have i want to be making music, not
programming the tools to make music... but its a long term investment
& in that sense the lyma ahs a lot of great prebuilt patches that u can mess
with, without getting your hands dirty... but then i love the max/msp help
which u can edit& sue in your own patches...
if portability is important to you then max/msp is the definite winner
the main reason i bought kyma was i was offered a second hand one
but i know its hardware will become redunant one day whereas what i do
in max/msp will continue to function as i upgrade my mac over the years....