Ableton Forum

A lot of us like a faster workflow-- not as much noodling-- we don't say to ourselves:

"Hmmm, I really need to construct an instrument from scratch to do this very specific thing, and THEN I can work on my musical creativity."

We just like to get on with it and work with tools that are already there, and try to bend and break those tools. That's why we love Live. So, one can assume that this new partnership between the companies seeks to bring those two molds together. Modularity + Open Architecture & Simplicity + Intuition.

But I can't help but wonder.

You know, when I think back to the days of Live 3, it seemed like you were forced to work within limitations. My creativity really loves limitions. Live 3 only had a few effects, no midi, and no instruments. But I was really inspired and totally blown away.

Now when I mess around in Live 6 and play with the mountains of content... I'm still really impressed and blown away, but I can't help but think that I am in some ways wasting a lot of time previewing all of those options, even though it's fun to find things like a bell instrument named after Forge.

I'm not saying the content shouldn't be there, I'm just saying that it bloats the workflow. I know I could ignore all of the content, and I have in a way, there are plenty of things I haven't tooled around with yet in Live's browser, because it now takes hours to explore the options. Presets get boring even if they're brilliant.

So, when the concept of Live turning into a Reaktor of sorts is contemplated, I am not among those who get really excited. I think it's cool, and for the tech-heads who can take that foundation and make strange and wonderful tools that they can then share with the rest of us, that idea is compelling. But in another sense it is just going to be more hills and valleys a creative person can get lost in. Live will have become a maze of choices, when it used to just be a blank canvas with a brush and some paint. The brush and the paint were familiar; it was the canvas that was reinvented.

So I guess I'm hoping for another simplistic reinvention. Whether you like it or not, audio and video are becoming one unified force as we move forward. I'm hoping for a simplistic reinvention that will allow me to explore new realms of sight and sound in a way I haven't thought about yet.

I haven't used any of the presets of Live, I only actually had a look at them for completeness during the later Beta stages of L6.

I have quite a slim setup for writing, currently a Simpler rack for drums, a 'bass' synth, an electric piano sound, a 'lead synth' and a delay and a reverb on the sends.Thats how I start pretty much every song.

It isn't essential at all to use the supplied content, in fact I only see it as an extended demo of Live for those without much experience in music making.

No-one has to use anything, I haven't felt forced to use the video options at all. I haven't felt them impact on my experience.

In the same way, if some fancy routing options arrive anyone not wanting to use them can be pretty sure they wont force themselves onto you.
If export as mp3 arrived, it wouldn't affect me at all. If Live arrived with 2000 bleep noises on CD, it wouldn't affect me in the least.

basically, I don't get this idea of artificially imposed limitation.
my workflow is designed by me and I like it that way. I am a bit sick of people saying 'don't develop live as a DAW' because of some weird fear.

Apparently everyone here wants me to buy a mac and get Logic so I can write songs. they seem quite insistent on it.

I am going to start posting just as fierce requests about taking out some of their features.

My new rallying call.
"NO TEMPO NUDGE"
because I would get some decks if I wanted to do that, right.

raaaagh

I have to agree with everything you said...I too need an inspiring (but already constructed) instrument to vent my brain and make music....
but limitaions are in your head...of course there is so many things you can do today , before this collabo...BUT you limit yourself to work with only 1 synth a bass guitar and a drum machine...in the end you have to limit yourself not to overpopulate the mix thus destroying it...and then u use a limiter for the master mix so limitin' is COOL.

But ,when I saw the thing yesterday I have to say I almost shed a tear of joy, the people at ableton are just doing their thing (...and That's what we love them for), for me personally it's very exciting because I do use max/msp on occasions, and I cant think of a more FITTING collaboration(...in comparison to the avid superpower this is quite releiving...), ableton is going the digital PERFORMER'S way and not the digital DJ's way(...which they really maxed out don't ya think??I DO...)

the end product WILL be inspiring, I hope the price will be saner...
Cuz Max/msp/Jitter is one pricey package and Live ain't so cheap(...)
and I plan on getting vista soon.

What I would like to see...A Hw device like a freakin' lemur/fairlight/Kyma/msp kinda thing... I would pay some big bucks for that...and then get lost.

whoo... long post...exciting times...

...or maybe next time we ask for a feature...
they'll tell us to go build it ourselves...
...I dunno things just keep getting crazier by the day, or is it just me???

Angstrom wrote:raaaagh

Run! It's Fangstrom!

Angstrom wrote: I am a bit sick of people saying 'don't develop live as a DAW' because of some weird fear.

For the record: when i hear DAW, I hear cubase, logic, DP,...

I've always considered Live as something else.

To prevent a long debate on the definition of Digital Audio Workstation...
I'll just say what my arguments would boil down to.
Cubase isn't a Live sequencing instrument.

You wont hear me debating "feared" features anymore.
I think Ableton just granted about 80% of my wishes in one blow.
We'll still have to see about that... But the odds look good.

It isn't fair though.
When i woke up this morning, the Cycling + Ableton news was still there. But Angelina Jolie wasn't there anymore...

hoffman2k wrote:

Angstrom wrote:When i woke up this morning, the Cycling + Ableton news was still there. But Angelina Jolie wasn't there anymore...

So don't wake up then. Sheesh, what a crybaby

mcconaghy wrote:

hoffman2k wrote:When i woke up this morning, the Cycling + Ableton news was still there. But Angelina Jolie wasn't there anymore...

So don't wake up then. Sheesh, what a crybaby

What? And miss Messe?

hoffman2k wrote:

Angstrom wrote: I am a bit sick of people saying 'don't develop live as a DAW' because of some weird fear.

For the record: when i hear DAW, I hear cubase, logic, DP,...

Yeah... for the record, I didn't say "don't develop live as a DAW" at all.

I just want them to keep it simple, and I want to be surprised. I want a new product that does something new and unexpected.

It seems to me that software development is a cycle of simplicity>complexity>simplicity. Revloutionary software comes out, more and more features are added as it develops until it reaches a point of bloatedness, and then it is streamlined back to being simple and easy to use.

I figure Live will continue to grow and grow and eventually they will redesign from the ground up and streamline, or someone elese will start a new company and make a new software that does everything Live does, but is easier to use and incorporates the most cutting-edge ideas the hardware can handle.

That's how Live got started in the first place...

Sales Dude McBoob wrote:I just want them to keep it simple, and I want to be surprised. I want a new product that does something new and unexpected.

isn't that their core business?
I'll trust them..

as hofmann already said; it also looks like 80% of my wishes will come through..

I understand your comments, but I think that this Able74 thing is going to be implemented very transparant..

So that users who need this kind of stuff are pleased but people who don't,
aren't visually exposed to it (interface wise)..

Personally, my music and my methods/processes in making music heavily depend on this stuff..
So for me the Able74 thing is a gods gift..

As I stressed about at Ableton Camp; to me Live still feels as Duplo, but I want it to feel as Lego..
Where I see Duplo more as 4/4 pattern based Session music,
and Lego as deep modulation/modularity and sounddesign based music..
(bit of a black/white comparison, but you get the idea)

So for my kind of music it's about time that Live focuses on the more exotic sounddesign side of things as well..

The userbase of Live is growing and growing, and with it the amount of user profiles that need to be pleased..

They could have not implemented MIDI at L4 and kept things much easier..
But would Live be the big buzz which it is now?
And who would be using it? Probably more likeminded profiles..

Modularity to the people!

I would like some sort of built-in instrument that works the way Live currently works with instrument and effect sections on the left side that can be dragged in and chained into wonderful little creations. Except that in addition to Instruments, Effects, and MIDI Effects, there would also be a section called "Algorithms", and you could drag them into a MIDI track and build synths, using a system similar to Kurzweil's K2600 series workstation... but a little more flexible, you know, in that Ableton sort of way.

I've been meaning to post that thought, and this seemed like a good spot.

Please carry on.

The thing is I can't see them using the partnership to make Live more modular. Perhaps Ableton would like Live to go more modular .. but they will know how to do that already, I mean, they are quite good programmers!

I just can't imagine that conversation ...

Gerhard: " so please tell us how do we make a modular application? because ours is a big monolith and I just don't know how to make it all boxy"
Cycling74: " OK, let me tell you how to suck eggs"

Nah, it can't be about that.
Ableton know their code and their users, they will know better than anyone how to "make Live go modular" if they wanted to.

How could they bring Cycling in as consultants on something so intrinsic?

we're probably all blinded by the announcement and living in our own private wishlist bubble..

I bet they're all in Christian Kleine's house now. Logging on to check our comments.
Hurting their ribs laughing.
Getting ready to go out for some drinks and laugh some more.