Is slicing as technique obsolate ?

rikhyray · Post by **rikhyray** » Sun Jun 10, 2007 1:26 pm

I went to Props producers conference in Hamburg without even knowing that it was hiphop focused. Found it very interesting specially DJ Babu.
I never worked this way, as remixer I get the parts and mostly use voxes only, sometimes , rarely some hooky lines. So basically I am doing new version of a song.
I am interested in learning some different technique, but is it worth? I meanmaybe those guys just to it this way because
1. they cant play so are forced to juggle with ready made music, elements
2 that is the only way they learned, with the old sampler technology and are stuck with it

I mean Ican mark whatever I want and drag into Impulse, what is the need for slicing?
Will appreciate if anyone points me what could make it worth, getting busy with learning this old school slicing remixing ways.

b0unce · Post by **b0unce** » Sun Jun 10, 2007 1:39 pm

DJ Babu is ace, what kind of stuff was he showing off ? slicing techniques in reason I take it ?

I use slicers as a quick method of Fucking Shit Up ....my own material however. My slicer of choice right now is phatmatik pro, I'm waiting for liveslice to come to osx-city.

I dont put rythmic stuff through phatmatik, i put in vocal samples, melodic stuff, clips of this & that - ...and turn it into glitchy fucked up rhythms. Not everyone's taste, but thats what I use slicers for.

They're quick to use, thats the main advantage I reckon....not because they offer you a function you cant do anyways. Like trackers in a way, the function isnt a revolution just the quick working method.

I think you'd know, by necessity, if you need or want to go down this slicer route. Do you want to fuck shit up or re-invent your drum loops quickly ?

tell us more about dj babu...

Angstrom · Post by **Angstrom** » Sun Jun 10, 2007 1:59 pm

I guess everyone develops techniques which are partly born from the medium you work in. It may be that some people like slicers simply because it follows from working on an MPC, but I couldn't say it is redundant because of that!
It may have been developed by people with a certain skill set, but it has merits because of that.

I used to do dance music in the 90's and slicers weren't really where it was at. I do 'slice' now to get that specific sound, but I do it all using Live's arrangement view and ctrl&e - which may be very long-winded method, but I like it.
The sound of slicedness is in our aural pallete now, it's a colour to be used.
Like swinging jazz ride cymbals, they may be a little cliched, but they work.

rikhyray · Post by **rikhyray** » Sun Jun 10, 2007 2:07 pm

Dj Babu is very nice fellow, liked his attitude and what he does. That question about being used to certain technique comes from watching what he did and said. For him the reason for Reason is that he works a lot touring and with MBP and Reason it is all there, so meanwhile even in the studio his hardware collects dust.
There was much discussion about sample clearances etc, loved his answer
"I am being sued again, as we speak, we try to clear them always and finally there is nothing left, luckily I have my income as DJ, and fuck it, all I want is to make music I myself like to hear in my car"
I mainly have in mind applying this technique to those old songs that I cant work the way I remix the modern stuff.
I am just thinking which way to go- Recycle +Reason, Recycle + MPC, Live or whatever else before I try it on a song I already selected. I thought it is good idea to ask for some input from hiphop heads here, before investing my time into learning something new.

rikhyray · Post by **rikhyray** » Sun Jun 10, 2007 2:17 pm

Angstrom wrote: I do 'slice' now to get that specific sound, but I do it all using Live's arrangement view and ctrl&e - which may be very long-winded method, but I

He,he,he cntr+e !!!exactly that is what I thought while struggling with Recycle. I am lazy I guess, immediately thought "isn't it easier faster in Live?",. cntr+E or just mark and drag into Impulse. I don't mind learning, I have Reason, MPC and Recycle (that I didnt use for long and then mainly for editing/exporting rex files). I like working quickly, that is why I am stuck with Ableton - it is the fastest DAW, at least for me.

longjohns · Post by **longjohns** » Sun Jun 10, 2007 2:40 pm

You can see that video of a Babu / Reason presentation, on the propellerhead site

djadonis206 · Post by **djadonis206** » Sun Jun 10, 2007 4:54 pm

Yes, you can use your clips and impulse to cut your beats up and do what you need to.

I use recycle a bit different then most - I use Live to stretch the beat to the tempo I need - then import the newly created 133 beat into recycle

turn on the grid and cut it perfectly on the 1/8 1/4 16th etc

bring my rex into dr. rex and do some ill sh*t

but I do this only with disco / funk / 80's loops - not dance drum beats

why - because when you have it all in dr. rex or whatever sampler of choice it's easier (that's all, easier) to rearrange the midi notes and make new rythmes out of really old ones

now with drum beat loops I jack off records or mp3s I use Lives volume clip envelope

I line up like 3 or 4 drum loops

ones got a nice kick - in the clip envelope I take out everything except the kick

anothers got a nice hi hat - take out everything except the hat

another got a nice clap - same thing

bounce this down to a new loop made out of old loops

making something old new again - some people are good at it, some aren't

glu · Post by **glu** » Sun Jun 10, 2007 6:26 pm

Some of the most creative moments I have is when I start cutting up melodies in arranger + consolidate then move the new clips over to session to trigger in realtime. Use this method for some percussion clips as well. Cut up some percussion samples, consolidate, and drag them over to session, map them to your midi controller or QWERTY and have at it.

In fact, I have a template with an audio track called QWERTY that maps the keyboard to designated firing slots for jumbling up rhythm. Its in every template I have. Once you map out your samples you can record a sample-triggered performance back into arranger, and then smoothen out your performance in the arranger view, automation, etc..

hth

rikhyray · Post by **rikhyray** » Sun Jun 10, 2007 7:07 pm

Tried the Recycliing way, dont think it make much sense slicing entire song. Live is much better for that, easier to hear what, where you cut. Will still try Recycling smaller clips It is more practical to load samples in few instances of sampler (NNXT) or Impulse instead of one with few octaves of samples.
Thanks everybody for ideas, I am trying each and all of them.

stale bread · Post by **stale bread** » Sun Jun 10, 2007 7:46 pm

Rik how much slicing are you doing on the mpc cause that is some very quick workflow,

as for the question no not obsolete at all but instead very necessary, whether you use a slicer or not much slicing is going on most daws, slicers just make it alot easier, the fruity loops edison is one magnificent audio slice= ing editor I love that thing to death, even bought the juice pack so that I could use it as a vst in Live, but the real good workflow comes from using vst slicers like Liveslice, guru, flstudio slicer, phatmatik, intakt, disco dsps highlife (you gotta get that m/f its too good to be free but it is), and many free slicers on kvr.

being vst means that unlike recycles longwinded offline slicing you can slice and go right there on a track, rearrange right there, effect pitch and time of each slice, erase slices you don't want, randomize slices, or just play slices like a drum kit.
much faster than dragging slices over to impulse.

how ever I do love recycle for when i'm just having a slicing/audio editing session and not actualy working on music, but then again edison is really getting alot of my attention these days.

on the mac side iced audios audio finder is great as well

rikhyray · Post by **rikhyray** » Sun Jun 10, 2007 8:39 pm

i was waiting for something from you, actually "sliced bread" would be better name then stale.
I did some slicing with MPC while learning it. It is nice because of hardware to move around, save etc. I only used it to have patched phrases of standard percussion grooves for live use. Chopping entire song ? Could be interesting , because of this hardware advantages, saving etc.
My next step, I am just going to proceed right now, is to work same song I just did with Recycle, with Live only. Then will test it with MPC perhaps, see the differences, compare.
It is mainly because of DJ Babu, I liked the way he did his thing how it sounded and because this whole concept of creation is new to me.
How do you use Recycle, what exactly and how ?

tjwett · Post by **tjwett** » Sun Jun 10, 2007 9:43 pm

slicers are cool but, in the words of The Dude; "i still jerk off manually".

rikhyray · Post by **rikhyray** » Sun Jun 10, 2007 10:46 pm

isn't it better to use render rather then cut and consolidate?

Johnisfaster · Post by **Johnisfaster** » Sun Jun 10, 2007 11:19 pm

rikhyray wrote:isn't it better to use render rather then cut and consolidate?

the only difference is that consolidate normalizes the audio (which is kinda annoying)

rikhyray · Post by **rikhyray** » Mon Jun 11, 2007 8:08 am

Really it normalizes ? I am highly normalizing allergic (mainly due to the bloody TV advertising, it became so annoyingly loud only due to normalizing), another plus point for render is "as a loop" option